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Paying kids to get good grades

edcoaching

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Just because Ns tend to get better grades or higher test scores doesn't necessarily mean that the system is skewed to favor Ns. It may, as distasteful as it feels, actually mean that Ns tend to be smarter and/or find learning easier. Most Ns in the U.S. would probably IME agree that the system feels extremely S biased with all its emphasis on rote learning.

Yeah, N's have to survive or get out of rote atmospheres. Thing is, higher you go, the less there is of that unless an N decides to major in something that continues in that vein. Most N's who make it to college find it much more appealing.

As for smartness...depends on what you're testing for. Exiting med school, S's tend to do better on the practical assessments and N's on the theoretical. One med school just added an emotional intelligence assessment--as in bedside manner--and are finding most of their students are failing it. What kind of smarts are we asking for and are we assessing properly for it?
 

Gen

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What kind of smarts are we asking for and are we assessing properly for it?

Thats fine, but its important to be sure that we're not altering the assessment just because we don't like the results. If you focus on leveling the playing field, the danger is that maybe instead you just dilute the intelligence/talent in that field.

Do want only less talented doctors that are nicer?
 

edcoaching

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Thats fine, but its important to be sure that we're not altering the assessment just because we don't like the results. If you focus on leveling the playing field, the danger is that maybe instead you just dilute the intelligence/talent in that field.

Do want only less talented doctors that are nicer?

Given that bedside manner actually affects patient recovery, and that patients with different type preferences need different things from their doctor (Brock and Allen) then doctors need to have both. They're the only ones I go to...:blush:

Here's another way to look at it. A colleague of mine has done this experiment with over 20 groups of educators. They divide into S, N, T, and F groups (not based on reported, assessed type, but on best-fit after training in type...) and as groups, come up with the best test question they can to assess students on a given body of knowledge. In each case, each group has come up with questions that are biased in favor of their own learning style. S's are fact-based, N's are what-if or global, T's are prove/disprove, and F's somehow involve impact on people. So...if assessors aren't aware of their own biases, the assessment results may not have anything to do with ability or intelligence...
 

ptgatsby

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Do want only less talented doctors that are nicer?

I would. There is no notable better care from better educated (ie: "Top schools") or more intelligent doctors. More to the point, I'd rather be diagnosed by a computer for a lot of ailments, than with any doctor of any skill level. This may be in part because of universal standardized testing.

Intelligence requirements establishes a floor on capabilities. Above that, it ceases to be a good proxy for ability.

Regarding the testing re: N/S part, medical doctors do not have a high enough IQ to cause an imbalance of Ns over Ss. For clarity, I'm saying IQ does matter in general, however it does not seem to be much of a barrier for the medical profession.
 

cafe

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A brilliant doctor isn't much good if he won't listen to patients. My doctor isn't probably brilliant, but she listens and if she doesn't know what's going on, she refers. :wub:
 

kyuuei

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My situation was very similar to yours, Kyuuei, when I was growing up. I grew up with my grandparents, who were retired at the time and made an average of 20-30k a year, 3k of which went towards private education per year. We were just far enough above the financial aid bracket to not qualify for help, but we earned too little, so it REALLY hurt.

My family basically made the following deal with me: You do not have to get a job and earn money (even though we could really use it) if you promise to get good grades and study hard. They even eased up on me and did not expect me to do chores.

The concept was: If you get excellent grades, you will get a very good scholarship to go to university. If you do not, we cannot send you to university. So forget working and just study hard so you can get ahead.

I had so much inner drive, that I often forgot to eat and drink, much less have a life. I was so driven that most people thought I was some kinda crazy IXTJ for a long-ass time. Trust me, when you have that kind of pressure on you, you do not need money. You feel like shit if you get anything less than perfect because you know how much your family is sacrificing to give you all they can.

Of course most people don't grow up under those conditions, so I GUESS they need some kind of external force to push them (especially if they are E's and the force does not come from the circumstances, as in my case).

But I'm hesitant to say that MONEY is the correct answer. I mean, isn't our society and aren't our kids sooooo focused on materialism? Shouldn't this be a kind of 'survival of the fittest' where the brightest and the most capable succeed?

I'm not sure if money should fit into the equation. For people that have a lot of money, this point is moot because they don't even need the money. For people without money, the point is moot because they don't have the money.

So we're basically talking about - excuse me for the crass term - yuppie and upper-middle class to middle-class parents who wonder how to get kids off their asses and work. Pfft...I don't know. I had thought that by that time you would have taught your children the values of hard work and studying WITHOUT financial compensation just by your OWN good example. Heh.

On the other hand, I have no kids, and I was raised very *very* traditionally (since my grandparents raised me), so I have some wacked-out and old-fashioned views regarding raising kids, I guess. That's why I'm anxious about having them because I damned well have no idea how someone can do it in this day and age. So I could very well be talking out my ass, farting, and saying crap.

*shrugs* I don't know. It just doesn't sit well with me.

I feel you entirely. High school I had no life, I didn't go out to Galveston Island to party on the weekends, the MOST I did was the occasional school event or a movie if I earned enough through babysitting. My parents were stuck both working to make enough money to get us by, and even then we've still had to spend much of our lives avoiding collection calls until we have enough money to give them up until recently.

I was always volunteering myself to stay and watch the house and my youngest ones so that they could have fun and do what they wanted. I never thought twice of it. My grades were my job, and since I wasn't working, I felt like I HAD to be good at my job so that it would be one less burden on my parents. But I was able to see their plight.. not all kids are mature like that. And Not all parents WANT them to see plight and such. I know my parents still regret that they had to rely on me so much back then, even if I didn't mind it and it probably helped me be responsible and hard-working later on.

I think if you're in a position to do it, and your kid needs a bit of positive encouragement, it's not a bad thing.. but I think I would do something else instead. Like maybe pay them a small allowance for chores, but when it came to school good grades would mean movie nights, or new books or a name-brand shirt from a store. (Those were a BIG deal for me growing up, since I had nothing but hand-me-downs most of my life. To get a shirt bought just for me was something I put a value at when I was young, it was a special thing to me.)

With that said.. Your kids are hopefully more mature and intelligent than simply work + good grades = moneyYAY! through the parenting you've done in their whole lives prior to all of that. MAking sure you kids grow up with values, manners, and such. Most of the young boys I see now-a-days don't even do the little things like take their hats off in church and such! I was even told to do that when I was younger.

A brilliant doctor isn't much good if he won't listen to patients. My doctor isn't probably brilliant, but she listens and if she doesn't know what's going on, she refers. :wub:

My doctor seems to be a good balance. He tells me straight up--even when it was bad news.. and albeit he isn't too sympathetic or anything, I sort of don't care. He's not my friend, he's there to tell me wtf is wrong with me and leave me to it. So long as he gets it right and I get fixed and healed I don't mind how their personalities are.
 

animenagai

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. Most Ns in the U.S. would probably IME agree that the system feels extremely S biased with all its emphasis on rote learning.

i agree with that. i had very little drive when i was in the early stages of high school because nothing was interesting to me. i got ok grades, lots of B's and C's, but tbh i was relying on my talents and just went into cruise control. everything was rote learning and just couldn't focus with shit like that. eventually, it became more and more about concepts and i got more and more comfortable with school. make no mistake though, i didn't need to wait till year 12 for that stuff. kinda wish i learned more conceptual stuff from primary school.
 

Not_Me

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I wish I could find a way to charge everyone's kids for getting bad grades.
 

Clownmaster

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To the OP: Good parenting and a healthy lifestyle for the child should be incentive enough to make good grades imo. If your kid inherited excessive rebellion, force them to eat vegetables or some other healthy torture for if they get C's XD
 

Randomnity

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I don't think it's a good idea to pay kids for grades, though I don't think it's particularly terrible either, and it might work out well for some kids. I don't think it would have worked well for me, I was too stubborn to have been bribed, plus the cost:benefit ratio is far too high.

Most Ns non-SJs in the U.S.north america would probably IME agree that the system feels extremely S Si biased with all its emphasis on rote learning.
Fixed. I can't speak for all SPs but I certainly wasn't thrilled with the excitement of my classes, in grade school at least.

Really though, I've seen about 2/3 of classes in grade school/early university as mainly focused on rote learning and 1/3 where the rote knowledge is assumed and you have to solve more creative problems using that knowledge to get any marks. In the more advanced classes of university the latter is more common.
 

kiddykat

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I can see Xavier's p.o.v.. I guess it highly depends on our value system/how we were raised.. I grew up poor. Money was never an option for bribery. Bringing home good grades was always something to be 'expected.' It was all tough-love.

Growing up, I never even got a single praise for bringing home straight A's from my mom. Whenever I did, she would glare at me and say, "That's what you're Supposed to DO!" Even if she would have bribed me with money, I probably wouldn't accept it because when I earn my A's, it's usually because I thoroughly enjoy the subject. Heck, nowadays, whenever she offers me money, I rarely accept it. I'd just feel too guilty (not unless it's for traditional gift-giving holidays). Other than that, I just can't (not unless if I really really need it).

Besides, taking money from another person actually makes me feel inferior. It's like the master-slave theory. I choose to live my life my own way. If I were to soley depend on her for my everything, I wouldn't quite live an own authentic life, because beyond the acceptance holds issues of expectations/conforming to others' wishes/desires.
 

lastrailway

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I haven't read but the OP and the post I quote below, so maybe I'm repeating something already said.

I don't see anything negative with paying kids to get good grades. Sure, one could argue that being a good student is for the kid's own good, but it really isn't necessary for the kid to get high grades in every single subject. Actually it isn't necessary for the kid to get good grades to most of the subjects, but the ones that interest them and at an advanced level and older age.

So if parents are expecting their children to get high grades, they're actually expecting them to do a job and all jobs should be paid. More motivation and more self confidence for the child, because they have a reason to work and get good grades, it's not just that their parents force them. And a bit more reason to parents' expectations from their children.

I can see Xavier's p.o.v.. I guess it highly depends on our value system/how we were raised.. I grew up poor. Money was never an option for bribery. Bringing home good grades was always something to be 'expected.' It was all tough-love.

Money was not an option for me either (not that anyone did care about my grades, anyway), but I believe the value to pay someone to do their best is a good value. Especially for subjects the kids aren't interested at. To do an effort on something you don't care about has to have a reward.
 

kiddykat

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Good point. I didn't read the other posts other than the OP's either & the one above.. :blushing: If I repeat something that's already been said, then my bad..

IMHO It boils down to intrinsic/extrinsic values & personal rewards. One could gain strong work ethics from getting paid for good grades (which can then develop into an internal value), but may lose core importance for education if the rewards are persistently external. One can also gain deeper values for education for the sake of learning as their own personal rewards system without the financial gains, but may lose integral values for artificial compensation.

One can also learn for the sake of learning for their own pure enjoyment/get paid for it if they wish to (and if their parents can afford to). In this case, they get the benefits of both worlds (if it's done without expectations to conform on their parents' behalf in other aspects of their lives- such as their genuine respect for their child's interests/true personality).

Bottom line: It depends on the individuals’ values/lifestyle/upbringing. Not everyone has rich parents who can afford to pay them for good grades. If they do, then good for them. If they don't, then oh well.
 

Giggly

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Provided nothing else works, is it better to teach them to be motivated by something distasteful like money, or to allow them to cycle through their schooling unmotivated and do poorly?
 

The Ü™

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Provided nothing else works, is it better to teach them to be motivated by something distasteful like money, or to allow them to cycle through their schooling unmotivated and do poorly?

The problem here is that people don't usually eat money.

I think I would have benefited from getting paid for good grades. I don't think it's a bad idea, at all. I mean to get good grades is hard work, so shouldn't you get paid for your work?
 
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Dali

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I improved dramatically from the near bottom of the class to the near top during one exam back in the 8th grade. Part of the motivation was that my father had promised to buy me roller-skates if I should improve. When the time came to buy me the gift, he said he had changed his mind and he would buy them for me if I maintained that position during the next exam. It was a little heart-breaking and I dropped dramatically once more.

I don't think kids should be necessarily paid in money for good grades but a physical reward when they're working hard goes a long way in both increasing their motivation and teaching them the invaluable relationship between hard work and reward.
 

kyuuei

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The problem here is that people don't usually eat money.

I think I would have benefited from getting paid for good grades. I don't think it's a bad idea, at all. I mean to get good grades is hard work, so shouldn't you get paid for your work?

Exactly. That's your child's career. People work because they get money. Why shouldn't kids learn about money and the value of working hard over a long period of time for it?

My dad sat me down, and explained how I should use money and the value of it, once I someday work at a job and receive it. I think I would have been a bit better with it (albeit I was better than most kids my age) if I learned it in a more literal way.
 
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