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  1. #11
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edcoaching View Post
    Most (not all) IJs seem wired for school--I'd have sold my soul for an A. Most IPs chafe against any schoolwork that goes against their values or principles (unless their top value is good grades). EPs may or may not be motivated--and can easily end up labeled as stars, ringleaders or ADHD.
    Hm. Myself and a few of my IJ friends (INJ) are pretty damn unmotivated when it comes to school. I perform much more like you describe IPs or even EPs (I have ADHD too). It's not that I couldn't have gotten all As, it's just that I don't really care, and I'd rather focus my energy on other things.

    My other male INFJ friend probably cares/cared less than I, and two of the INTJs I know don't/didn't care at all either.

    I don't think it makes sense to make generalizations about school. I think it has much more to do with nurture than type (not that type doesn't have to do with nurture either).

  2. #12
    Resident Snot-Nose GZA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    Heh, sounds exactly the same. And although I understood it intellectually in high school, it really took me a few years after I graduated to really see how ridiculous it all was. People are still so fucked up now, and most of them just finished college -- of course, they just blew threw it with majors they thought they were supposed to do... So much pressure.
    Yah, and it's not that Law School or Medical School is bad or anything, it's that something like a skilled trade is almost looked down on, even though it is just as respectable a career and makes a lot of money depending on what you do. It's actually come to the point here where the stigma against trades jobs has created a huge demand for work with few people willing to train for it. Maybe it's a "class stracture" thing, I don't know.

    But yah, it's really sad, I've watched kids I've known my whole life and grown up with get really screwed up from drugs and stuff and I'm guessing a lot of it is from the pressure and expectations (I know the families very well so I know they weren't abused or anything, and there's usually one kid who is a perfect student, too). You can't really help but look at them and think that it just as easily could have been you.

  3. #13
    Senior Member animenagai's Avatar
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    i think the word 'bribing' is unnecessarily negative. i love my degree now but as a child, it was honestly something that i felt like i just had to do because of my parents. i didn't love it. i appreciated intelligence but that doesn't mean i'll put in the extra yards to get a top grade. there are 2 sides to this 'bribery'. if used correctly (not overly extravagant with rewards etc.) it can build tools that the child can use all their life, even when the reward is not that obvious or immediate. the negative side is that some kids will not try hard without a defined profit. a lot of society leans towards the latter anyways, in fact, you can label it as a S vs N thing. honestly, it's not as bad as some of you make it look.

  4. #14
    Senior Member miked277's Avatar
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    i don't see anything wrong with money for grades. paren't ultimately give their kids money for a variety of items be it in the form of allowance, food or what have you. why not have it be a form of positive reinforcement? and as well, the ultimate message in the end for young adults is that working hard will get you money. why not have the money incentive there for things like school and grades which can have a much more profound impact on a kids life than say, bagging groceries at the local grocery store.
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  5. #15
    Rats off to ya! Mort Belfry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royal Xavier View Post
    Recently an online friend of mine, whom I know fairly well, said that for a few years when she was in school her parents payed her every time she got an A. She payed them the same amount for every B she got.
    ...
    I guess the reason I'm so confused about it is that she's a fairly intelligent and principled person whom I wouldn't expect to get involved with it if it were bad...so am I wrong?
    Yep. You're wrong. It's spelt PAID not PAYED.
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  6. #16
    Senior Member edcoaching's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    I don't think it makes sense to make generalizations about school. I think it has much more to do with nurture than type (not that type doesn't have to do with nurture either).
    Except I wasn't generalizing. The stuff came from research. However...INTJs and INFJs will shut down at any school that emphasizes rote learning over anaysis/synthesis/construction of knowledge and doesn't allow for independent pursuit of topics of interest. Unfortunately, most AP courses emphasize rote learning (there are fantastic exceptions but usually it's cram for the test). Here's what a whole ton of studies show:
    • INTJs and INFJs have the highest GPAs on average, with ISTJs close behind.
    • INFPs and INTPs have higher IQs (not that this measures intelligence but it does correlate with the junk that schools usually honor as thinking skills)
    • SP's make up about 90% of students in alternative schools. Note that not that high a % of the population ends up in alternative high schools but it shows how little the needs of these students are met...
    • Although 75% of the population prefers Sensing, 82% of the Merit Scholarships, based on the PSAT, go to Intuitives. This is after leveling the playing field for who's taken the most AP classes. On the SAT, there's a 250 point average difference between the highest-scoring type and lowest-scoring. The test is extremely biased in favor of the Intuitive style fo guessing. It was written by Intuitives...
    • EPs are most likely to be misdiagnosed as ADHD;IPs as ADD. All types can have these conditions but the misdiagnosis usually falls in these categories.


    What I'm seeing is more and more rote learning in the wake of No Child Left Behind, demotivating rather than improving the performance of bright children of every type...
    edcoaching

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by edcoaching View Post
    INFPs and INTPs have higher IQs (not that this measures intelligence but it does correlate with the junk that schools usually honor as thinking skills)
    LOL (really). Not that I necessarily disagree.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mort Belfry View Post
    Yep. You're wrong. It's spelt PAID not PAYED.
    Thanks Mort, that's all I needed to know :P

    Seriously though, I'm seeing a lot of posts about pressure and how it messes up kids. So maybe it has to do with the situation. Perhaps if kids are already smart enough to get good grades but just need some extra encouragement, a little payment wouldn't be so bad(though a tutor would probably be better). But if the kid is obviously headed nowhere academically, what use is it to pressure them, particularly if it makes the situation worse like dissonance and GZA pointed out?

  9. #19
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    well what gets me is that the kid's being paid to do something from which only they themselves benefit anyway. If a kid is smart and is made to realize that this is THEIR future they're investing in... that ought to be all the payment they need. Paying them in the short term is kinda like going against the idea of deferred gratification, somewhat...

    then again, the school system was started partly to ensure that child labour, such as existed in the Victorian period, was stamped out. the kids got paid for sweeping chimneys or cleaning floors or scooping up horse shit, even if it was only a pittance... if society benefits in the end as well as the kid themselves, from the kid applying themselves at school, maybe it's not so wrong that they should expect a little compensation... after all, when the kid grows up they might be just as happy in a moderately paid job, paying far less in taxes, that they can get by just graduating high school... if they're to put in all the extra effort it takes to reach the higher wage brackets, maybe they should get something back for it since they continue giving even after they've left college...
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  10. #20
    Senior Member Gen's Avatar
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    We spoon feed babies until they learn how to feed themselves. We keep them away from dangerous objects until they learn that these object might cause them harm. We do the best we can to keep them safe, instill the values and teach the lessons that we think they will need for a happy successful adult life.

    One of the most often heard statements of my life from those in midlife: kids just don't understand how important education really is.

    Whatever you can do to instill the importance of learning, or at least get them to a place where they have enough options, when they reach 18 and don't have to follow your rules any more, is what you should do. As they say, they'll thank you for it later.

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