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  1. #11
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    What model from the 30s are they using?

    I generally hate the idea of this kind of thing. I can't stand the idea of basing hiring decisions based on someone's personality. It feels like it borders on unethical. I'm more of a fan of making these decisions based on evidence of behaviors associated with success in the particular job being applied for, intelligence level (for some jobs) and previous experience. Communications skills are important too.

    I had to take a test for my first real job - it was a logic test to qualify me for being a computer programmer. Apparently there was a pretty high failure rate. I can see having a test in that case because it was tied to something pretty much related to what you were going to do on the job.

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  2. #12
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I also don't see the point in giving personality tests to lower-level McDonald's employees. You're just looking for a warm body to fill a position for low pay.
    That's actually what the tests are looking for.... someone who is not ambitious, but who follows orders and is content with task-work (not requiring anything very challenging). As this article notes, this is supposed to reduce turnover, which costs money. I read about this many years ago, but I don't have the links to those articles anymore.

    I've wondered if this is why retail workers seem to be getting stupider and ruder, or if I'm just getting older and like to complain more about how people are getting stupider and ruder. The success rates reported are problematic as how those are measured don't necessarily include customer satisfaction. For example, it may use how short a call is, which is supposed to relate to how quickly/easily a problem was solved, but it doesn't necessarily.

    I've also noticed the bias for extroverts on those tests, but the employers who use those tests seem to end up with chatty workers who talk amongst themselves and are rude towards customers. It doesn't really work in reality, because the correlation between certain personality traits and certain work habits are not what people imagine. The tests seem to be rooted in the biases in people's imaginations too. They don't seem to be able to back that X trait means someone will be good at meeting Y requirement for a job.

    The answers to the online tests are easy to find, and they generally make the right answer the extreme answer , ie., if it's a scale of 1-5, better to choose 1 or 5 than a middle number. Apparently, moderate answers are seen as "indecisive" or "unsure". Sometimes the answer you think would be right is not, especially if they are seeking those "warm bodies". They really don't want someone too smart with goals beyond a mediocre job and low wage.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  3. #13
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Not at all. Want an idea if a person is a good fit? Get a gauge via interview. These sorts of tests don't work, encourage lying, and are all around just a bad thing to do.
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  4. #14
    #KUWK Kierva's Avatar
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    I think an interview with unexpected questions would say more about you than a test could ever hope for.
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  5. #15
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    This is a pretty interesting article out of Cornell about the subject.

    Punch line
    - The tests are often based on the big 5 model
    - Use is highly controversial
    - Correlation between test results and job performance is somewhere between zero and five percent (95% of job success coming from factors other than what's in the test) though they don't appear to have high confidence in these numbers
    - They also talk about emotional intelligence but don't reference how often those attributes are measured
    - Fake answers are provided by 25% of applicants
    - Legal considerations include the, "1) Title VII discrimination and 2) discrimination under the Americans with Disabilities Act (“ADA”)"; some cases have been won in court showing discrimination
    - Companies are going to keep doing this because the cost of a bad hire is so high ($75K) vs. cost of lawsuits (at least today)

    Interesting quote: "Research indicates that emotional intelligence has predictive validity “in domains such as academic performance, job performance, negotiation, leadership, emotional labor, trust, work-family conflict, and stress.”[37] While some contend that emotional intelligence and personality are the same, other studies reveal that emotional intelligence is measuring something apart from personality.[38] Specifically, when measuring emotional intelligence as a separate construct, it can be measured separately from intelligence and personality.”[39] "

    How to "fake it"
    "Resist the urge to be too revealing. The assessment is part of the job interview, not something for your own enlightenment. If you are curious about your psychological profile, take one of the tests out there on your own dime.
    Be a social animal. If you need to lock yourself in a soundproof room to do your work, don’t admit it. These days, law firms are very keen on team work. Never mind that most of the big rainmakers tend to be solipsistic egomaniacs. The buzz word is ‘cooperation.”
    Be sunny. Lawyers are paid to look at the worst-case scenarios, so they tend to be skeptical, if not pessimistic. Despite your inclination to look on the dark side, try to project a positive, ‘I’ll-find-a-solution’ attitude. That’s what clients want to hear.
    Be cool. If you get angry or take criticism badly, don’t admit it. Grit your teeth and say you welcome criticism—and that you always learn from it.
    Review math. Yes, there was a math section on the test that completely threw me. It might help to buy one of those SAT prep books.[43]"

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  6. #16
    Senior Member RedAmazoneFriendZone's Avatar
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    Unexpected questions yes, to avoid usual lies...

    Seems in France we are not the kings of tests. I don't know how things work outside Europe.

    I've just worked in other countries and find the system much more fair : People don't judge you because you are too much or not enough qualified !!

    I think interviews should include graphology tests for some very specific jobs.
    A good graphologist can guess some of your temper's subtleties that a good observer can't always see.

    Unfortunately, graphology is not considered as a science but as a pseudo-science.

    Society is focused on benefits and results, so personality remains most of the time in the background.

    If the annual sales grows thanks to you, you are allowed to lie as much as you want.


    Sad to say : pulling strings + diplomas work better than real skills and hard work. Without speaking of honesty...
    ALL THAT WE SEE OR SEEM TO BE IS BUT A DREAM WITHIN A DREAM
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  7. #17
    Google "chemtrails" Bush Did 9/11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    This is a pretty interesting article out of Cornell about the subject.

    Punch line
    - The tests are often based on the big 5 model
    - Use is highly controversial
    - Correlation between test results and job performance is somewhere between zero and five percent (95% of job success coming from factors other than what's in the test) though they don't appear to have high confidence in these numbers
    - They also talk about emotional intelligence but don't reference how often those attributes are measured
    - Fake answers are provided by 25% of applicants
    - Legal considerations include the, "1) Title VII discrimination and 2) discrimination under the Americans with Disabilities Act (“ADA”)"; some cases have been won in court showing discrimination
    - Companies are going to keep doing this because the cost of a bad hire is so high ($75K) vs. cost of lawsuits (at least today)


    I'd be interested in articles that discuss the overall trends in the use of personality assessments for hiring. Did they peak in, say, the late-'00s/early-'10s and then start declining?
    J. Scott Crothers
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  8. #18
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    There's one down in Boise I've seen, and maybe some others; but I remember that chain more from my days of frequenting eastern PA (that was my college Kwik-E Mart!) and NJ.
    Ohhh thought you were still in PA

  9. #19
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jscrothers View Post


    I'd be interested in articles that discuss the overall trends in the use of personality assessments for hiring. Did they peak in, say, the late-'00s/early-'10s and then start declining?
    I get the sense that this is not declining. It is increasing. That's just an impression though.

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  10. #20
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    Well if this kind of thing was used when I went for my last job I would have been unemployed for the past decade. Good thing that human's are adaptable and can leverage whatever they've got into any job they choose to become good at it. Equally good thing that some companies haven't forgotten that. Personality traits aren't a destiny, they are just a set of functions.

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