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  1. #51
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    I am referring to the Bell Curve on which the gifted fall. It is set out in What is Gifted and Talented Education anyway? (Part 6); IQ and the Bell-Curve - National gifted education | Examiner.com

    And note: only one child in 100,000 has an IQ of 165.

    So a gifted child has almost no chance of ever meeting another gifted child.
    This is a very limited perspective on what it means to be gifted. This scale measures a specific set of intellectual gifts. It says nothing about artistic, athletic, interpersonal, or other gifts which probably follow their own bell curves. One can be at the upper end on one, the lower end on another, and in the middle on yet others. Yes, this is what schools usually mean when they offer "gifted programs", but then they are operating from a very limited definition, too.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  2. #52
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
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    I am glad my school - our country i general - doesn't have it. I would havenever gotten selected to it and i would have felt jealous.

    However some schools have a program for not only the most 'dedicated' students - i am using the wird dedicated instead of gifted here for obvious reasons - but have programs for weaker students. I wonder how they fel everytime a fellow student, a teacher or parent react when they hear that the studdnt is from a weak class. And the parents? Wow! It makes me fucking sick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    My experiences in gifted student programs were always positive. The class size was smaller, which was less hyper-stimulating for me. I felt constantly challenged/motivated. A few kids would jeer at students in either the accelerated or the slow classes, but kids find any reason to pick on one another. Having a combination of 'blended' courses (P.E., music, art, health, etc) - gave us an opportunity to interact & work together with everyone on the same level. Overall, I feel like the experience benefited my education (& my psychological development) more than anything else.
    Because you were a part of the program, other students students probably thougbt it was a program for weird students. Infact you probably set the stone for future generations in your school who was selected to the program to be labled as weird too .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    There are a tiny number of us at one end of the Bell Curve who are gifted. And they have a measured IQ of 160 or above.

    And interestingly the gifted are different, not only in IQ, but also emotionally.

    The gifted are emotionally gifted in that they are over excitable (OE), or sometimes it is expressed as high emotional excitability.

    So for their social integration it is important that the gifted join a group of their gifted peers at an early age.

    Unfortunately many parents want their children to be gifted, but the statistics are completely against it. And so we have what we might call ersatz gifted classes for the vast majority who are not gifted.

    In other words, being gifted is a form of parental snobbery for many.

    Meanwhile the genuinely gifted can be overlooked, misunderstood, and relegated.
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  3. #53
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    I feel like the non-traditional classrooms can alienate students. I wasn't in gifted but I was in a non-traditional classroom most of my school, and when I was in a traditional class I had an IEP but I refused to use it cuz I did not want special treatment, my teachers and parents would tell me that I should use it. I'd refuse. So maybe if I was in gifted I'd have felt ok with it. But I wasn't and I didn't want people to know that I had an IEP. It's interested people who aren't quantifiably different try so hard to prove that they're so unique and different, but me who actually had a diagnosis and was able to get services tried so hard to be normal and not let anyone know. I stopped speech and ot around 7 because I was so embarrased. But ot was actually a lot of fun, it was basically just playing.

    the interesting thing though

    is 80% of my friends growing up were in a gifted program of some sort.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  4. #54
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gifted starts at 130, not 165.
    The average for University students here is 120 and none, not one is gifted. So it is a bit of a reach to claim giftedness for 130.

    And if 130 were gifted we would have an enormous increase in the number of gifted and this is ridiculous.

    In fact the gifted are very tiny in number and percentage, just as the sub-normal are very tiny in number and percentage. And unfortunatedly both the gifted and the sub-normal are routinely socially excluded by the normal.

    So it is plain to me that your claim for giftedness at 130 is based on special pleading of the normal and sheer vanity.

    In other words the normal wish to continue their emotional cruelty to the sub-normal and the gifted under the New Age mantra, that even the normal are gifted, and they are not.

    Simply ask yourself, why do you make a claim for giftedness at one end of the Bell Curve, but religiously avoid making the claim for sub-nomality at the other end, when both claims are equally ridiculous?

  5. #55
    Senior Member Forever_Jung's Avatar
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    In my experience, a lot of gifted students don't get the gifted label. All the supposedly "gifted" kids my school were just high-achievers with pushy parents and slightly above-average intelligence.

    On the other hand, I have an INTP friend who was very likely a genius (it's hard for me to judge, because he was so much smarter than me) and teachers never paid attention to him, unless it was to punish him for being "difficult". Growing up, he was very disengaged in class. He rarely spoke in class, and when he did, it made teachers VERY uneasy, because he clearly knew more about the subject than they did. He would calmly and politely correct them, and they just sputtered that THEY WERE RIGHT and he was being "disrespectful". Eventually he gave up and just started educating himself.

    It wasn't until University that he actually started caring about school. I took Greek and Latin with him in University, and by the end of the year, the professors would ask HIM about linguistic matters they were unsure about. I was so happy to see him finally get some respect and recognition, after 13 years of being passed over by teachers who just weren't equipped to teach him.
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  6. #56
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    I enjoyed being in the program, the teachers in those classes put a lot more effort and creativity into their teaching, it seemed. I didn't think much about the challenge part. It's a shame not every student got that aspect of an education. But then again, did it really matter in the end? After all, I did drop out of school and flip burgers. (It got better)

  7. #57
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    The average for University students here is 120 and none, not one is gifted. So it is a bit of a reach to claim giftedness for 130.

    And if 130 were gifted we would have an enormous increase in the number of gifted and this is ridiculous.

    In fact the gifted are very tiny in number and percentage, just as the sub-normal are very tiny in number and percentage. And unfortunatedly both the gifted and the sub-normal are routinely socially excluded by the normal.

    So it is plain to me that your claim for giftedness at 130 is based on special pleading of the normal and sheer vanity.

    In other words the normal wish to continue their emotional cruelty to the sub-normal and the gifted under the New Age mantra, that even the normal are gifted, and they are not.

    Simply ask yourself, why do you make a claim for giftedness at one end of the Bell Curve, but religiously avoid making the claim for sub-nomality at the other end, when both claims are equally ridiculous?
    No. I'm just telling you what the link you posted says.

    What is Gifted and Talented Education anyway? (Part 6); IQ and the Bell-Curve - National gifted education | Examiner.com
    IQs above 130 are where the Gifted and Talented (GT) designation begins, so this means that this includes only 2.5% of the students. These students require a much more rigorous and challenging curricula just to keep their interest.
    I think you're thinking of genius, not gifted. Genius is what starts at 165. I would never claim to be a genius, but being merely gifted is a significantly lower threshold. Still, it only includes 2.5% of children, based on the information you posted. Children do not need to be geniuses to participate in gifted education but that doesn't translate into huge numbers of gifted, either.

  8. #58
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    now we all can be gifted!
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so
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  9. #59
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    now we all can be gifted!
    HAHAHAHAHAHA!

    They clearly made the color difference to make it not-creepy. Even then though it just wasn't enough. I love it .
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