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  1. #21
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    I was expected to be a Dr., Esq., or in finance of some kind. Politics has been an acceptable distraction, but only as long as I succeed in the private sector first.

    I didn't have to get all A's like the Indian kids, A's and B's were good enough (I was also an International Baccalaureate student though). College graduation was like High School graduation... expected.

    Beyond that, as long as I'm doing something respected and making $$$ nothing else really matters. They probably would have preferred me being a Dr. or Lawyer, but the job opportunities are better in finance so they are quite happy with my decisions.

  2. #22
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    I grew up in a really gender-casual environment where both my parents had phases where they were stay at home parents and both pursued career excellence at different times. I was only expected to transition from being a net drain to a net contributor to the world.

    I'll have a PhD fairly soon. I thought about dropping out halfway through to pursue business or something, because academia has a high rate of people with mental health dysfunction and that can be hard to navigate when you've got to attend meetings and be on committees and get work done with these people. And it's not necessarily the illness that's the problem, but rather that academia rewards long-term output and has no day-to-day functioning checks and balances like a normal workplace, plus there's tenure* so some people are permanently going to be there regardless of how bad their problems get. You begin to ask, "do I want to spend my days with these people who aren't dealing with their health issues? Because how we live our days is how we live our lives, right?" There are lots of great people who are healthy and normal. But I'm just saying that a few people not dealing with their issues can really affect overall group morale.

    I found a good research pocket that will leave me with options once I'm done the PhD. I love my research area, but I want options because I'm wary of having to geographically up and move away from friends and family again, only to maybe get stuck in a department with too many dysfunctional people--giving up my peeps for that is not worth it IMO. My parents could not possibly care less about whether or not I finish it, only that I can figure out how to stand on my own feet and be happy.

    *I think tenure is really important given that academics have a moral imperative to stand up on behalf of civic issues. My experiences are also colored by being at a very high research-intensive institution. I think one notch down the scale is probably a lot healthier of an environment.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  3. #23
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I was expected to be a Dr., Esq., or in finance of some kind. Politics has been an acceptable distraction, but only as long as I succeed in the private sector first.

    I didn't have to get all A's like the Indian kids, A's and B's were good enough (I was also an International Baccalaureate student though). College graduation was like High School graduation... expected.

    Beyond that, as long as I'm doing something respected and making $$$ nothing else really matters. They probably would have preferred me being a Dr. or Lawyer, but the job opportunities are better in finance so they are quite happy with my decisions.
    As an ENTJ those paths mesh well with your natural drives, but would they be cool if you had like a chill, non-competitive IxFP brother? How do you feel about that?

    I feel like America offers me, an NTJ, lots more oxygen to fuel my conquerer-drives compared to Canada (which values mediocrity to the point of stifling ambitious people) but I also notice how much Fi users get told they suck here just for being their live-and-let-live selves.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    As an ENTJ those paths mesh well with your natural drives, but would they be cool if you had like a chill, non-competitive IxFP brother? How do you feel about that?

    I feel like America offers me, an NTJ, lots more oxygen to fuel my conquerer-drives compared to Canada (where sometimes me and other ambitious people were stifled) but I also notice how much Fi users get told they suck here just for being their live-and-let-live selves.
    My sis is a high end art consultant in Atlanta.

    My parents expectations revolve around what kind of person I am and what I'm capable of achieving.

  5. #25
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    I'll have a PhD fairly soon. I thought about dropping out halfway through to pursue business or something, because academia has a high rate of people with mental health dysfunction and that can be hard to navigate when you've got to attend meetings and be on committees and get work done with these people. And it's not necessarily the illness that's the problem, but rather that academia rewards long-term output and has no day-to-day functioning checks and balances like a normal workplace, plus there's tenure* so some people are permanently going to be there regardless of how bad their problems get. You begin to ask, "do I want to spend my days with these people who aren't dealing with their health issues? Because how we live our days is how we live our lives, right?"
    Yeah, Usehername, that´s exactly why I´m leaving. I´ve always been fairly nerdy, but I am nearly not nerdy enough to stand the standard academic social life. Plus, I would not like being forced (forced is the key) to move a lot in order to find a position.

    Edit, wait, I didn´t read the rest of your post, you mention exactly this point.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  6. #26
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    My sis is a high end art consultant in Atlanta.

    My parents expectations revolve around what kind of person I am and what I'm capable of achieving.
    Thanks cool. Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Yeah, Usehername, that´s exactly why I´m leaving. I´ve always been fairly nerdy, but I am nearly not nerdy enough to stand the standard academic social life. Plus, I would not like being forced (forced is the key) to move a lot in order to find a position.

    Edit, wait, I didn´t read the rest of your post, you mention exactly this point.
    Yeah . . . no one tells you this stuff before you enter!

    To give myself the credibility of having real options ahead of me when I'm done, I've purposefully been meeting bare minimum for the departmental/field-specific PhD expectations and instead focused on racking up markers of excellence in my research collaborations that have value both in and out of academia at large. The students who are golden children in the department are getting gold stars but also really jeopardizing their futures. I'll be a markedly different academic which means I'll never fit in the bread-and-butter replication of early 20th century academia, but that's on purpose. There's innovative departments and there's alt-ac options. I'd be happier in either of those places.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

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