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  1. #61
    Senior Member Opal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    The opposite happened with me. I was and am a rather bright/gifted person, and in elementry school, I was lazy. It really really comes at price to be smart, and I am still paying for it today. I didn't want to do any assignments outside of school. To me, school was school, home was home, and they should never mix. I was constantly grounded, in trouble, in detention for not doing homework or big projects. I was pushed/punished heavily, mostly because by all measures I was very smart and could easily be top of class. It was an issue of wasted potential. I was miserable in elementary school and part of middle school. No amount of pushing, punishment, prodding, etc. would get me to do it. Why? Because to me I'd rather try and game the system or twist myself around it so I could get around doing things. Not doing assignments wasn't an issue of it being too easy, I just flat out didn't want to do it. Was it interesting? Nope? Yeah not doing that. It's kind of funny, the amount of effort I put into trying to twist things to get away with stuff was far more energy that it would have taken to do the assignments. But from my prospective, assignments were hell, and worse punishment than grounding.

    My relationship with school, work, effort, and success is very complicated, and I have accepted that it forever will be. I hate to say it, but my laziness issue and desire to follow the path of least resistence is intractible and has been innate in me since I was an infant. I was struck with the innateness of this when I saw videos of me learning how to crawl. I also very well could be the end of me with me working on my PhD, because I have never been in an environment structured in such a way that it completely hinders my normal tactics. Though, I am good enough that I have found a way to work it, but if it undo's itself, I run the risk of being completely toast. I could fix it, but my lovely mental issues and intractible motivation/energy problems have blocked me from doing so. Yay for being a mess!
    *stares you in the eyes and fixes hair*

    This retelling struck a chord with me. I've skirted all conventional forms of work and academic progress because, simply put, I could, and that process was vastly more interesting than what I perceived as grunt work. In my adolescent eyes following a track was death by submission, the reduction of the self in all its complexity to utility, and not even interesting utility. My study and time management skills are abhorrent because I always assumed I could problem solve in the moment; I would cram information within minutes of tests if I didn't wholly rely on the test's creator subconsciously sprinkling questions with clues.

    I will likely never excel within an academic or corporate system because I failed to develop the necessary skills. In this way my intelligence was incredibly counterproductive to "success".

  2. #62
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    The opposite happened with me. I was and am a rather bright/gifted person, and in elementry school, I was lazy. It really really comes at price to be smart, and I am still paying for it today. I didn't want to do any assignments outside of school. To me, school was school, home was home, and they should never mix. I was constantly grounded, in trouble, in detention for not doing homework or big projects. I was pushed/punished heavily, mostly because by all measures I was very smart and could easily be top of class. It was an issue of wasted potential. I was miserable in elementary school and part of middle school. No amount of pushing, punishment, prodding, etc. would get me to do it. Why? Because to me I'd rather try and game the system or twist myself around it so I could get around doing things. Not doing assignments wasn't an issue of it being too easy, I just flat out didn't want to do it. Was it interesting? Nope? Yeah not doing that. It's kind of funny, the amount of effort I put into trying to twist things to get away with stuff was far more energy that it would have taken to do the assignments. But from my prospective, assignments were hell, and worse punishment than grounding. I remember on one particular occasion in 7th grade, I had to take a history test that I didn't study for, and didn't care about. I was VERY stressed about it, but putting energy into it did not outweigh it. I failed, and I thought "ok, I got through the pain, I can ignore it". Turns out, nope! A teacher said "we'll let you take it open text book, but you'll get a max of an 80%". I said I didn't want to and was fine with my grade, and the teacher said "ah, actually no we're gonna make you redo it". I freaked out, I got REALLY upset, and even cried, saying I couldn't do it. The teachers were beyond confused. What I wouldn't tell them though, is I flat out did not want to do it. Too much effort. But, I couldn't tell them obviously. I just wanted to take my bad grade and be free, because I knew I'd be safe grade at the end of the marking period (well, if you can call a D safe). The webs I weaved in elementry school were immense. I honestly attribute my ability to socially manipulate as well as I can from my experiences of having to do it when I was young in school. Anyway I digress.

    When I hit 8th/9th grade something changed. I suddenly was able to hit the reset button, try enough to get good grades (material was more interesting too so I was motivated by that some), and still shirk things when I was too lazy or lacking in energy to do it. I was able to use my innate intellect, and twisting skills to do very well. I never cheat, ever. But I still know how to socially push/pull. I never pulled top marks. I pulled very high marks, but I never was driven to have the number 1 label. What's interesting, is there were a few times I did pull top marks, and it was clear to me that I was not trying as hard as everyone else, and did not put in the same level of effort, I freaked out, and felt profoundly undeserving. My brain seems to default to thinking the most successful person is the one who puts in the most effort and is the most attentive to detail, two things I suck at. I also very carefully preened my image to appear as best as I can (I'm a very good talker). So when I hit the marks, I'm like "oh shit, I tricked everyone too well. Crap, now I am held to a standard I can't meet".

    My relationship with school, work, effort, and success is very complicated, and I have accepted that it forever will be. I hate to say it, but my laziness issue and desire to follow the path of least resistence is intractible and has been innate in me since I was an infant. I was struck with the innateness of this when I saw videos of me learning how to crawl. I also very well could be the end of me with me working on my PhD, because I have never been in an environment structured in such a way that it completely hinders my normal tactics. Though, I am good enough that I have found a way to work it, but if it undo's itself, I run the risk of being completely toast. I could fix it, but my lovely mental issues and intractible motivation/energy problems have blocked me from doing so. Yay for being a mess!
    The way you make it sound, it seems like you put a hell lot of effort (at the very least in terms of mental energy) in all this stuff.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  3. #63
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solipsists View Post
    *stares you in the eyes and fixes hair*

    This retelling struck a chord with me. I've skirted all conventional forms of work and academic progress because, simply put, I could, and that process was vastly more interesting than what I perceived as grunt work. In my adolescent eyes following a track was death by submission, the reduction of the self in all its complexity to utility, and not even interesting utility. My study and time management skills are abhorrent because I always assumed I could figure things out in the moment; I would cram information within minutes of tests if I didn't wholly rely on the test's creator subconsciously sprinkling questions with clues...
    Yup. This also a reason why I did so poorly on my SAT's. I refused to study for something designed to just be a gate. The whole test is nothing but a trick so I did poorly, as you need to learn the tricks to do well. The first time I actually sat down and buckled down was when I took AP chemistry in 2006, and managed to get a 5. I wanted the 5 so I put in the effort I determined I would need to get it. I still shirked some things of course. It was an important moment because that year taught me, that when push comes to shove, you have to slog through it. If it weren't for that I am not sure I would have made it through college because I barely passed calculus II. It was the only course I truly had to press my nose to the book to get passed what I needed. Even then I still did the minimum. I came really close when I took physical chemistry II too. I didn't do any of the homework (which tanked my grade) and for the exams I would open the book for the first time and read it for 6 hours or so synthesizing it in my head, and I'd manage to pull a B/C on it. It actually caused me a lot of mental distress because I was in the grips of a nasty depression episode when this happened (which was the primary reason for doing what I did in that course anyway). I realized "If I was able to just read the book, once, and pull off the grade I did... omg I am wasting myself so much I am horrible. Why can't I have more energy/work ethic?", and cue even worse depression! I've just learned to repress it (along with, well, everything else?).
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  4. #64
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    The way you make it sound, it seems like you put a hell lot of effort (at the very least in terms of mental energy) in all this stuff.
    Yes, I am a very mentally active person. Every move I make is extremely calculated and tactfully planned, but a large chunk of that is innate and doesn't cost too much energy. At least I don't think. But yeah, I'd say you are correct.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
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  5. #65
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Even if I let you cheat off me?
    I'd have drawn doodles all over your paper, do you like stick men wars?
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    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
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  6. #66
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    I didn't want to do any assignments outside of school. To me, school was school, home was home, and they should never mix.
    I don't want to go back to school cause of this very reason. I'm dreading that part a little.
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  7. #67
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    I don't want to go back to school cause of this very reason. I'm dreading that part a little.
    Then you should just stay at school while you're doing your homework / studying.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  8. #68
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Then you should just stay at school while you're doing your homework / studying.
    Ugh, I know. I just had flashbacks.

    That's exactly what I used to do. Once I'm there though, I can get it all done. It's the transitions that are the worst for me.

    My experience was actually opposite of @Hard 's. I hated the pressure of having to get anything done. (stupid superego) And I still do. I stress myself out to the point that I'm all work no play. And again even with that, it's hard for me to transition modes.

    As for the OP, I don't think that it's setting one's self up for failure. Just have to be able to put in a little bit more work than some others might have to. (And by a little, I probably mean a lot. lol)
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

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  9. #69
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephano View Post
    George Bush senior only tested 98, whereas junior got 121 on a test. In terms of competency junior failed catastrophically. I'm too lazy to look for a source right now.

    Junior also destroyed his brain with alcohol abuse

    Check out youtube and see him 20 years ago and now in a debate.
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  10. #70
    Senior Member BlackDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    Yup. This also a reason why I did so poorly on my SAT's. I refused to study for something designed to just be a gate. The whole test is nothing but a trick so I did poorly, as you need to learn the tricks to do well. The first time I actually sat down and buckled down was when I took AP chemistry in 2006, and managed to get a 5. I wanted the 5 so I put in the effort I determined I would need to get it. I still shirked some things of course. It was an important moment because that year taught me, that when push comes to shove, you have to slog through it. If it weren't for that I am not sure I would have made it through college because I barely passed calculus II. It was the only course I truly had to press my nose to the book to get passed what I needed. Even then I still did the minimum. I came really close when I took physical chemistry II too. I didn't do any of the homework (which tanked my grade) and for the exams I would open the book for the first time and read it for 6 hours or so synthesizing it in my head, and I'd manage to pull a B/C on it. It actually caused me a lot of mental distress because I was in the grips of a nasty depression episode when this happened (which was the primary reason for doing what I did in that course anyway). I realized "If I was able to just read the book, once, and pull off the grade I did... omg I am wasting myself so much I am horrible. Why can't I have more energy/work ethic?", and cue even worse depression! I've just learned to repress it (along with, well, everything else?).
    The SATs depend on whether you are talking about the Reading or Math sections. Or the Writing section. The Writing section is totally just tricks, I'll grant you. But there is a little room for inference. The Math section I can't speak to because I am ignorant about mathematics. The Reading section is really fun, or it was for me; if you are sufficiently good at reading and making inferences, you can get a perfect score on the second time around (without study outside the actual test-taking day) because I did it. It was funny because I remember breezing through the reading sections so that I could save my mental energy for the math section, which I had studied for, a lot. Then, when I got my results, it showed I got a perfect score on the Reading, and just barely pushed above average on Mathematics, which is truly bad since the average scorer probably doesn't even go to university. My problem was illiteracy in the language of math; I could barely understand the problems, let along solve them. But I don't think I have the brainpower to do the solving; my brain just doesn't seem to work that way.

    Did you study in Organic Chemistry?

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