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  1. #1
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Default Would it be advantageous and/or ethical to split students up in school by MBTI?

    How would splitting students into the four temperaments (SJ, SP, NF, NT) affect education as a whole, and would it be ethical to split students into those groups? The students would still go to the same school, but perhaps they divide the school in 4 for each of the temperaments, and maybe some classes could overlap between 1 or more temperaments.

    Also, if you use Socionics, do you think that its quadrants (Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta) should be used instead of the temperaments?

  2. #2
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Just off the top of my head and not being anything like an educational scholar or anything, but I don't think it would be advantageous or ethical to do that. Number one, I don't think we can reliably type children (not sure we can reliably type anyone, actually- it's always going to be a rough guess). Number two, different personalities have different things to offer in an educational setting- it's not, or it shouldn't be, kids sitting there soaking up information from an authority figure. They participate in their own education and help each other in various ways. We need balance to expose students to all kinds of perspectives. Number three, as an NF many of my favorite people are NTs and I also love me some SJs and SPs, and it would have sucked to have been stuck with all my own "kind" so to speak. I think we all do best when there's a give-and-take and some air in the system. It's that many perspectives thing.

    All of the above would go for Socionics quadrants as well, I assume, though I don't know as much about those.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Just off the top of my head and not being anything like an educational scholar or anything, but I don't think it would be advantageous or ethical to do that. Number one, I don't think we can reliably type children (not sure we can reliably type anyone, actually- it's always going to be a rough guess). Number two, different personalities have different things to offer in an educational setting- it's not, or it shouldn't be, kids sitting there soaking up information from an authority figure. They participate in their own education and help each other in various ways. We need balance to expose students to all kinds of perspectives. Number three, as an NF many of my favorite people are NTs and I also love me some SJs and SPs, and it would have sucked to have been stuck with all my own "kind" so to speak. I think we all do best when there's a give-and-take and some air in the system. It's that many perspectives thing.

    All of the above would go for Socionics quadrants as well, I assume, though I don't know as much about those.
    That makes sense, I was thinking that possibly grouping them together with their peers would help them learn in an environment engineered to their type. Today's schools are built for SJs and all of the students (especially NTs) are taught to become more like them, it's quite sad.

    The Socionics Quadrant would be interesting however, because it pairs 4 types that work well together and often make friends with each other.
    For Example:
    (Remember that the introverted types get screwed up when making the transition, the most common of which being that INTPs in MBTI mostly become LII INTjs, and INTJs in MBTI mostly become ILI INTps)

    Alpha Quadrant - ENTp (LIE), INTj (LII/MBTI INTP), ISFp (SEI), ESFj (ESE)

    Beta Quadrant - ENFj (EIE), ISTj (LSI), ESTp (SLE), INFp (IEI/MBTI INFJ?)

    Gamma Quadrant - ESFp (SEE), INTp (ILI/MBTI INTJ), ENTj (LIE), ISFj (ESI)

    Delta Quadrant - ESTj (LSE), INFj (EII/MBTI INFP?), ENFp (IEE), ISTP (SLI)

    http://www.socionics.us/theory/quadras.shtml

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    No, but it would be advantageous to split by learning style, and to keep people with conflicting or near opposite personalities away from each other.

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    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    One thing I really like about the teachers at my son's school is that they present material in multiple ways for different kinds of learners. And some people learn well in multiple ways. I wouldn't want my kids to miss out on the tactile experiences because they're auditory learners, or whatever. His current teacher has been pretty good about using classroom groups and seating arrangements to keep him out of the path of a couple of kids who take issue with his personality (he's autistic and also quite NT if I had to guess, though he's only 8).

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    girl with a pretty smile Honor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    How would splitting students into the four temperaments (SJ, SP, NF, NT) affect education as a whole, and would it be ethical to split students into those groups? The students would still go to the same school, but perhaps they divide the school in 4 for each of the temperaments, and maybe some classes could overlap between 1 or more temperaments.

    Also, if you use Socionics, do you think that its quadrants (Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta) should be used instead of the temperaments?
    Definitely not into the idea of separating people by temperament. The quadra idea could be interesting, though. In college, I noticed that when cliques were successful, people had divided by quadra.
    RobertCalifornia: TL thinks im black
    RobertCalifornia: shes my homegurl
    Hive: arent you
    SpankyMcfly: wait... you arent?

    thoughtlost: I am not really religious. I just like getting free stuff from churches.

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    Stansmith
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    Each temperament should be assigned its own homeland to prevent miscegenation.

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    Senior Member _eric_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CapLawyer View Post
    No, but it would be advantageous to split by learning style, and to keep people with conflicting or near opposite personalities away from each other.
    Yes, learning style is a big thing. Students who are better at visual-spatial learning will not do well learning with long verbal lectures for example. There should be material and teachers that can cater to them better instead of having just one way of teaching and expecting all the students to just deal with it. They may be very capable of doing the work and learning the material, but if there is a teaching incompatibility they could end up doing very poorly. I think testing for learning styles and splitting students up based on that (at least for the bulk of the course, some intermingling would still be good) would be far more helpful than basing it on personality type. There is some correlation between personality type and learning style, but it's not consistent enough to make that the basis of division, IMO.

  9. #9
    Entertaining Cracker five sounds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    One thing I really like about the teachers at my son's school is that they present material in multiple ways for different kinds of learners. And some people learn well in multiple ways. I wouldn't want my kids to miss out on the tactile experiences because they're auditory learners, or whatever. His current teacher has been pretty good about using classroom groups and seating arrangements to keep him out of the path of a couple of kids who take issue with his personality (he's autistic and also quite NT if I had to guess, though he's only 8).
    this is the current model "differentiation," but it's really hard for teachers to achieve. i think smaller class size is the answer. keeping them heterogeneous as far as learners go, but allowing the teacher more time and fewer students to divide his or her attention between.

    also, using the "universal supports" model, which kind of scaffolds lessons from the most basic breakdown all the way through to the higher theoretical application, and allowing all students to benefit from hearing it in all ways. no matter what kind of learner you might think a student is, chances are he will benefit from hearing explanations from different approaches and styles in at least some instances. it helps prepare them for life too, where things are presented differently to us as adults, and we must find our own way to learn the information in the best way for ourselves.
    You hem me in -- behind and before;
    you have laid your hand upon me.
    Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
    too lofty for me to attain.

  10. #10
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    It would be disadvantageous as a long-term strategy, I would think. We gain more knowledge, experience, and resilience from stretching ourselves to meet others than we do from remaining in our own boxes. It would be fun and interesting to periodically split off into the proposed groups, though, either temperament or quadra.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Today's schools are built for SJs and all of the students (especially NTs) are taught to become more like them, it's quite sad.
    I do not really think this is true. My ESFJ teacher mother and ISFJ teacher significant other both are as frustrated by the current educational system as anyone, and often lament all of the hoops they have to jump through and all of the restrictions placed on their ability to present material or conduct instruction in the ways they would prefer to instead of as prescribed. While there is some truth to bottom-up learning being better-received by SJs, the current curriculum at least in the US includes quite a mismash of legal restrictions and bureaucratic red tape and is often more geared to administrators and politicians seeking qualitative data to publish rankings than to the benefit of students themselves, of any MBTI type. Not that it falls entirely into the hands of the administrators or politicians, either. But the system is convoluted on many levels in facets more complex than temperament division can account for. SJs too would benefit from change.

    Quote Originally Posted by nicolita
    also, using the "universal supports" model, which kind of scaffolds lessons from the most basic breakdown all the way through to the higher theoretical application, and allowing all students to benefit from hearing it in all ways. no matter what kind of learner you might think a student is, chances are he will benefit from hearing explanations from different approaches and styles in at least some instances. it helps prepare them for life too, where things are presented differently to us as adults, and we must find our own way to learn the information in the best way for ourselves.
    Yes.

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