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  1. #11
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    ^^ If the situation above is what generally prevails, then my own experience was anomalous (or things have changed quite a bit over the past 10-15 years).
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  2. #12
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    I think there's some truth to that article, based on what I've observed in my college experience. If nothing else, it's something interesting to think about. And yeah, I know, a white male would say that, but I'm not really interested in discussing affirmative action at all, to be honest. I'm pretty indifferent to it, in truth. I support the goals, but I'm not sure that it accomplishes them for the reasons mentioned above. It probably doesn't make things worse, though.

    This is why I don't like discussing politics. I don't actually feel like any of these problems can be solved with some pre-packaged ideology. I don't claim to know what would work, but I don't think pre-packaged ideologies are dynamic enough to handle all the complexities. Ideologies only seem to change based on what will win or lose elections. I'm not convinced that they change based on additional data inputs, which is what I would like.

    Granted, some of it is about values, and that's the part that's useful for me, but when it comes to policy solutions, I feel like I don't really know most of the time.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  3. #13
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Because being white is a crazy-huge advantage all by itself.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  4. #14
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Our social environment is an immense determinant of who we are and what we will become.

    And our environment is so powerful because we take it for granted, that is, our environment is invisible.

    And being invisible, we act only within our environment, limiting us to our given environment.

    So we should forget self improvement and seek to become part of a better environment.

    This is easy to say and hard to do because for most of us are blind to various environments, and worse, we are chauvinistic about our given environment, and even worse, we don't have the social skills to move to a better environment.

    Learning social skills to move to a better environment is addressed in George Bernard Shaw's play, "Pygmalion", and in the musical called, "My Fair Lady".

  5. #15
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I think there's some truth to that article, based on what I've observed in my college experience. If nothing else, it's something interesting to think about. And yeah, I know, a white male would say that, but I'm not really interested in discussing affirmative action at all, to be honest. I'm pretty indifferent to it, in truth. I support the goals, but I'm not sure that it accomplishes them for the reasons mentioned above. It probably doesn't make things worse, though.
    I saw plenty of counterexamples to that article. I am one myself in fact, except for being white. In fact, IME it describes a small minority of students. I support the goals of affirmative action as well, but think there are better ways to achieve them in most cases.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  6. #16
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I saw plenty of counterexamples to that article. I am one myself in fact, except for being white. In fact, IME it describes a small minority of students. I support the goals of affirmative action as well, but think there are better ways to achieve them in most cases.
    Maybe the truth is in between. I definitely didn't really grow up in an elite enclave... more of a middle/lower-middle class area, so I suppose it could apply to me.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
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  7. #17
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    When I take action everyone would do well to move out of the way.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Because being white is a crazy-huge advantage all by itself.
    You'd attribute our President's current position to his white half? If not, I hope you realize the ridiculousness of that proposition is quite on par with your own statement. Please do not think I'm personally insulting you. I'm merely pointing out that character, not race, is the determining factor in today's post-racial society, no matter what the campus ideologues of "fill-in-your-favorite-quota-group" Studies say.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Hoove View Post
    You'd attribute our President's current position to his white half? If not, I hope you realize the ridiculousness of that proposition is quite on par with your own statement. Please do not think I'm personally insulting you. I'm merely pointing out that character, not race, is the determining factor in today's post-racial society, no matter what the campus ideologues of "fill-in-your-favorite-quota-group" Studies say.
    Personally, I think intelligence, discipline and connections are the main factors responsible for determining your success, though being female or a member of an ethnic minority helps you get jobs in the public system due to all the silly quotas introduced by the government.

    I am highly skeptical of the belief that racial disparities are entirely environmental in origin, as well.

  10. #20
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    On one hand, there is such an advantage to being white that I understand why affirmative action exists as it does.

    On the other hand, I always believe that socio-economic class is the strongest, most serious form of discrimination and disenfranchisement.

    So, I kind of see it both ways.

    In theory a proper system would coordinate a whole bunch of different factors about a person to create a sort of rating. The problem is that making a working policy out of theory can sometimes be very difficult.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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