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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    I think the book Mastery: the keys to success and long term fullfillment by George Leonard, says it much better.
    That is an awesome book.

  2. #32
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    The study of goals is called teleology.

    And teleology tells us that goals are a function of print, for print is linear and sequential with a beginning, a middle and an end.

    And in fact we take print so much for granted, we now take goals for granted.

    But teleology has met the telegraph, the telephone and the television, and ironically the tele -graph, -phone, and -vision are not teleological.

    Yes, the teles are not linear and sequential, rather everything happens at the speed of light and appears to us to be happening all at once. Under the teles there is no time or space for a leisurely movement towards a goal, it's all here and all now.

  3. #33
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    To put it bluntly, goals are for losers. That's literally true most of the time. For example, if your goal is to lose 10 pounds, you will spend every moment until you reach the goal—if you reach it at all—feeling as if you were short of your goal. In other words, goal-oriented people exist in a state of nearly continuous failure that they hope will be temporary.
    I mean, what?

    First, it is pretty much impossible not to have goals, whether you explicitly define them as goals or not.

    Second, no, you obviously don't spend every moment feeling as if you were short of your goal. I want to gain 20 pounds of muscle, and I am working toward that goal, and it is quite fine. I enjoy working out, I enjoy seeing progress, and most of the time I am actually not thinking of the goal. It's always in the back of my mind.

    That quote is stupid.

  4. #34
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    It depends on what you mean by goal and how you.go about reaching it. If you say I am going to lose ten pounds, maybe you feel like a loser until you do, but if you instead say I am going to have a healthy lifestyle and eat fresh, whole foods more and make myself happy by doing exercise I enjoy, then you win every time you eat healthy food and do your favorite activities. The weight loss is secondary to living a fuller life, though ten pounds may come off incidentally.

    I don't feel like a loser because I don't have a forestry degree yet, I feel more fulfilled every time I do something related to environmental conservation and enjoying nature. I feel good about what I can do now, whatever it is.

    Of course I don't have that whole big houses, shiny cars, keeping up with the Joneses and have a career because it's impressive instead of because I enjoy it mentality though. And yes I agree framing things that way makes many people miserable.

    So yes and no.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    I think there are sort of two components here. I like having something to work towards in the future. A goal. But it's also important to live a fulfilling life in the here-and-now. I dunno. I think a lot of it is about being able to see life at once as something in progress as well as already at it's destination. I definitely struggle to stay present-minded but that's where happiness is. But goals can be what help you become a more accurate external manifestation of who you want to be.
    And gratitude. Gratitude is so important. If you only focus on what you don't have, you forget how much you do have. If you acknowledge what you have done, you will have confidence to keep doing.

  6. #36
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    And gratitude. Gratitude is so important. If you only focus on what you don't have, you forget how much you do have. If you acknowledge what you have done, you will have confidence to keep doing.
    That is so true.

  7. #37
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    God is dead, the author is dead, privacy is dead, why we even listen into the private conversations of Angela Merkel, so it comes as no surprise that goals are dead too.

  8. #38
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    God is dead, the author is dead, privacy is dead, why we even listen into the private conversations of Angela Merkel, so it comes as no surprise that goals are dead too.
    At least moles aren't dead.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  9. #39
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    You're only a loser if you think or feel you're one.
    "In Heaven, everything is fine." - The Lady in the Radiator

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by taylord View Post
    You're only a loser if you think or feel you're one.
    What you don't seem to realise my dear Taylord is that loser is an American trope.

    For instance in Oz we never use the word loser in the pejorative way Americans do.

    So if you don't want to be seen as parochial, rather than naively saying loser, you might prefer to say American loser.

    Then we will know you are a man of the world.

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