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  1. #21
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    The professional occupations mentioned DO require "apprenticeships": doctors must complete their residency, lawyers must complete a period of articling, etc.

  2. #22
    redundant descriptor netzealot's Avatar
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    I have come to the conclusion that the conventional college system is not the place for SPs and in fact this problem has already been addressed a while ago in the form of tech school. It's short, and vaults you into a high paying job based on your technical ability.

    What you must understand too is that for most SPs, the jobs you'd get after 4+ years of college will probably feel like an equal waste of your life. With few exceptions, they tend to be the likes of slow paced desk jobs. The jobs that are an exception to this will all include a portion of practical training anyways. So even if you can stomach the schooling for it, you're out of the frying pan and into the fire.

    Tech school, on the other hand, is designed to provide the practical training and cut the rest out. They can do this because the jobs you can go to tech school for are equally practical and fast paced. It's the perfect place for SPs... ISFPs for instance, to follow the cliche, could go to fine art school, ISTPs to mechanical, ESFP to performing arts, and ESTPs to business. Of course that barely scratches the surface of the 20+ types of tech school but you get the idea.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    Wouldn't want an untrained person at all I'm more or less talking about the efficiency of our education system. Does a doctor really need 8-10 years of schooling or could their work be done sooner same with layers and other professions. It seems that the education system is set up so that we have to push through countless hoops in order to achieve our goal.
    Perhaps this happened in the "olden days" or I just like to tell stories, but once upon a time I think many people learned a skill through an apprenticeship of sorts (edit: which I see was already mentioned), sometimes along with some formal schooling & other times not. They'd be trained by a "master" in a more hands-on setting & would gradually inch into the actual job (as opposed to going from a classroom and "in theory" to being tossed into the realities of a profession). For many professions & some people's learning preferences this may be more effective than a more structured classroom setting. Financially, it makes waaaaay more sense for a lot of people & it's a shame there are not a lot more or more known apprentice type programs or opportunities.

    I found college was actually a faster but more expensive way to learn a chunk of what people would learn on my job over time. I feel like they pack 10 years of stuff into a few years, but the trade-off is you pay for it instead of learning while making money on a real job. So it can be a way to expertise faster, but not the only way, and certainly not without a cost (literally).

    People also view college as making you more well-rounded over all; college used to be less about education for a job than education, period, which is why it was mainly for the wealthy. It was not meant to lead to anything but a more enriched mind. Yeah, that can be done for free in a public library (to a point; let's not devalue the face time with professors & instructors & interaction with peers), but few are that self-discplined. When you pay for it, then you have a big motivation to follow through, haha.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Society increasingly values certification over qualification, though, which relates to the idea of excessive formal schooling. It doesn't count if you can actually do the job, if you don't have all the right paperwork and boxes checked. This affects well qualified people who got their training and experience in the military, overseas, or even in a different state, and feeds a racket in which they must pay for unneeded "training", new certificates, wavers, application fees, etc. It has everything to do with bureaucracy and profit, and little to do with making sure someone can do the job. The skilled trades Giggly mentioned rely on apprenticeships in most cases. More occupations would do well to follow this model.
    THIS.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    The education system is inefficient and unrealistic it keeps people down in the dumps for a hope that one day afters years of slavery their lives will different.
    Our education system in prosperous countries of free, secular and compulsory education has been enormously successful in creating universal literacy and the counter-intuitive point of view.

    But literacy is now the content of the electric media and we are learning different manners and mores which conflict with the old education system.

  6. #26
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    It would teach you to ask why instead of what properly in this title.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Our education system in prosperous countries of free, secular and compulsory education has been enormously successful in creating universal literacy and the counter-intuitive point of view.

    But literacy is now the content of the electric media and we are learning different manners and mores which conflict with the old education system.
    There is more to education than literacy.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    It would teach you to ask why instead of what properly in this title.
    It was a typo chill you're not funny.

  9. #29
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    I am hilarious, come on.

  10. #30
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LevelZeroHero View Post
    I have come to the conclusion that the conventional college system is not the place for SPs and in fact this problem has already been addressed a while ago in the form of tech school. It's short, and vaults you into a high paying job based on your technical ability.

    What you must understand too is that for most SPs, the jobs you'd get after 4+ years of college will probably feel like an equal waste of your life. With few exceptions, they tend to be the likes of slow paced desk jobs. The jobs that are an exception to this will all include a portion of practical training anyways. So even if you can stomach the schooling for it, you're out of the frying pan and into the fire.

    Tech school, on the other hand, is designed to provide the practical training and cut the rest out. They can do this because the jobs you can go to tech school for are equally practical and fast paced. It's the perfect place for SPs... ISFPs for instance, to follow the cliche, could go to fine art school, ISTPs to mechanical, ESFP to performing arts, and ESTPs to business. Of course that barely scratches the surface of the 20+ types of tech school but you get the idea.
    I think that's a stereotype. There area a lot of SPs that do extremely well in conventional college.

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