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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilateral Entry View Post
    Perhaps a handsome photo of yourself.
    I'm not handsome, I only have a nice bone structure and posture. Some SFJ family members told me more than once that I look like "a minister" and another guy said that I should look like I just lost my house in gambling, instead I look like I just won a million dollars (that is when interacting with people outside the close family).

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Everything is about how you word it. You make things sound more professional than they are.

    Example: Helped dad sell shit at a yearly faire.
    Turns into: 8 years of dedicated experience in retail and customer service responsible for managing and assisting sales. Responsible for the security of inventory worth over $xxxxx while working flexible hours and schedules to suit the needs of the business.

    Not that those words exactly are the best, but you can turn 'menial' work into something outstandingly super sounding because, honestly, that is exactly what it all is. People don't realize how much responsibility is in even small jobs. It just looks small and 'whatever' to them. I worked yearly at the Renaissance festival, but on my resume I am a store manager responsible for over a million dollars worth of inventory security and three store associates in a team-oriented environment providing a service to customers and a stable sales environment.
    No offense, it is a good idea as long as you can back it up in an interview, but reading your post made me laugh so hard! Take it as a compliment.

    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    Tons of people need help with their computers. You could volunteer at a community center to teach people how to use technology. Call up schools, retirement centers, low-income environments, etc. to volunteer. Ask around to banks, insurance companies, etc. who are updating their technology equipment and see if they are discarding the old or if they are willing to donate it for a tax write-off.

    An even more simple approach is to make signs and place adds saying that you fix computers and help people get set up on the internet, etc. In this case you could charge even a little something, or volunteer time depending on where you are advertising.

    That type of volunteering demonstrates that you have initiative and it also strongly suggests that you are person who has concern for others. That can go a long way for employment because everyone has had headaches working with difficult people. Work environments can accomplish more when not burdened down with too much negative social nonsense, so having that volunteering on a resume' could be rather significant.
    Calling up schools is pointless, they have teachers for that. There aren't many retirement centers, or actually any except around 2h away from where I am. Low-income environments - you'll have to be more specific, the whole country's low-income. But yea, as I said, I'll call up some community centers and other volunteer-work based environments to see if they need anything related to computers. Or maybe will even go there. Asking around companies who are updating their technology is an outstanding idea - around here, it's the time when people are updating technology!

    I couldn't charge anything unless I'd register myself as self-employed, which would mean paying $50 a month to the government (may be more now). Unless I could make that, I can't afford it. And I'm doubtful about posting posters saying "setting up computers, internet connection, etc. for free," it would look suspicious. Not to mention that internet is set up by the company you order it from, if you choose so and it's free. I doubt any company would respond to such a poster, and I can't get a useful reference from a random guy unless he's influential, and if he was influential, he'd either call a friend or a serious company and pay $20 to get the job done. So while it is a good idea at first look, it becomes a bad one when thinking about the details. If I missed something, let me know - I was actually excited about it before I thought about it for a minute.

    -----------------------------------------------

    will create a new post for @Coriolis, this one's already long.

  2. #42
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typoz View Post
    No offense, it is a good idea as long as you can back it up in an interview, but reading your post made me laugh so hard! Take it as a compliment.
    I don't see how it's funny. People down play their own responsibilities all the time. I'm not saying make yourself sound like a CEO if you're a cashier at McDonald's.. but people don't see what they've really done and accomplished and know how to translate that onto paper. Were you responsible for the security of a significant amount of inventory? If so, that deserves some recognition. Employers want to know that you're competent, capable, and most of all that you know how to do your job and can adapt quickly from your weaknesses in that job. People don't really play up their strengths.. You sort of blew off 8 years of seasonal work as nothing .. not everyone can show up to a seasonal job that many years in a row. My work at the Ren Fest was a high, high turn-over rate, which is how I got store manager within my second season. It isn't insignificant just because it isn't the most important job out there.

    I was just pointing out that making it sound the way job descriptions sound when you apply to jobs is important. You don't want a whole story of made up lies, but you DO want to play up the strengths of what you've done before because... let's face it. Everything is online now. No one sees you in person anymore. People don't even want to talk to you before they've seen a resume of some sort. Everything on there should count. And everything you've done in your life until this point should count. And the way you make it count is to tell the story the way a story teller would.. not the way a stoner kid trying to get to the point would. "I helped my dad for 8 years at a faire.." sounds so.. bleh. Whatever. But it really isn't.
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  3. #43
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    I've worked on my resume last night, and here is what I came up with:

    2004 to now, solving computer problems and helping with questions, doing it for friends, their friends, classmates, acquaintances and myself:

    Have installed and configured Windows systems (from 3.1 to 8) and Linux systems (Fedora, Ubuntu, CentOS, ArchLinux)
    Have configured various CMS and their designs: IPB, vBulletin, Drupal, PHPFusion, PHPNuke, Joomla, Wordpress, ModX, Concrete 5, DotNetNuke
    Have taught how to use software, including university students and software I didn't know prior
    Have explained XNA code logic without prior knowledge of XNA to a university student
    More than once have explained programming algorithm logic to classmates
    Have configured various software, including Office, anti-virus, browsers, Adobe Suite, etc.
    Have assembled hundreds of computers of various configurations
    Fixed hundreds of BSOD screens
    Cleaned up viruses, junk and old systems

    2005 to 2011, satisfying my creative side, mostly for myself, but also for friends and acquaintances:

    Have created a few high quality website designs using HTML and CSS
    Have created a site that interacts with a program's database and lets you manipulate the data using PHP and SQL
    Have create a few small games and basic software using C, C++, Java and Ruby
    Have published articles about technology, gaming, futuristic possibilities and psychology
    Have given an interview to a gaming site with ~30k monthly viewers about my gaming server
    Often take up to learn something new to satisfy my curiosity

    2008 to 2012 expressing my worldview and ideas, mostly towards internet acquaintances:

    Administered a few websites, one of them had ~10k visitors a month
    My ideas led a game server to success, which surpassed the old-timers in a short period of time
    Successfully controlled and planned the workflow of small teams of programmers and administrators

    2005 to now, sales manager and coordinator, helping my dad:

    Created plans on how to set up the booth
    Sold alone and helped to sell merchandise a few hours a day
    Calculated financial matters after the event
    Organized transportation logistics

    2007 to 2011, worked with Office software suit, helping relatives and at school:

    Used Excel, Word and Powerpoint software at school
    Helped to analyze and calculate data using Excel
    Have created presentations for business meetings

    Interests and hobbies:

    Feeling my best if I always have an on-going project
    Latest technology
    Self-improvement
    Have discussions about the topics I'm interested in
    Completing projects
    Of course it appears nicely formatted in the resume and all...

  4. #44
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    First of, CV isnt where you write your personality characteristics and that sort of stuff, they go into application itself. Its where you list your past jobs, your education, your hobbies, your skills(like languages you speak, what programs you can use on computer etc).

    it should look something like this:

    Contact information
    Manhattan street 94 a 9
    tel. 4224 242252 22
    email. typoz@typoc.com


    Personal information
    Typoz mc typo
    Born 1999 may 5
    Married(yes marital status is good to put in)


    Job experiences
    Bungaloo fair
    Salesman
    12-15.4.2005
    12-15.4.2006
    12-15.4.2007
    12-15.4.2008
    12-15.4.2009
    12-15.4.2010
    12-15.4.2011
    12-15.4.2012

    Courses
    MBTI training, MBTI center
    21-23.4.2008

    Know-how MBTI, computers, photography, photo manipulation

    Language skills Hungary Native
    English Excellent

    Computer skills Photoshop, MS word, Internet, MS Office

    Hobbies cba to make up hobbies, just write what you have, you should mention not just physical activities, but also things like MBTI and that sort of stuff
    edit. what ever you do, do not mention that you were just helping you dad on the fair, you need to make it seem as if it was as official and big thing as possible, but not lie about it. it is true that you were a salesman in the fair, so just say salesman, where and when
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    First of, CV isnt where you write your personality characteristics and that sort of stuff, they go into application itself. Its where you list your past jobs, your education, your hobbies, your skills(like languages you speak, what programs you can use on computer etc).

    it should look something like this:
    Oh we're past this now, in fact previous post of mine contains the updated resume. I should update the OP. Appreciate the input though.

    Also, what did you mean by "they go into the application itself?" The application IS the CV, there is nothing else. Assuming you are replying to a job offering on the net, you send an email containing your CV, sometimes with a motivational letter. There is no application, but I bet you wanted to say something else.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typoz View Post
    Oh we're past this now, in fact previous post of mine contains the updated resume. I should update the OP. Appreciate the input though.

    Also, what did you mean by "they go into the application itself?" The application IS the CV, there is nothing else. Assuming you are replying to a job offering on the net, you send an email containing your CV, sometimes with a motivational letter. There is no application, but I bet you wanted to say something else.
    no, cv and application are two different things, writing them on same file looks noobish and you dont want that. you should send the cv as attachment and application also as an attachment in separate file or just write it on the email message thing(better to put it as attachment because its easier for the employee to go through the applications without having to go through all hundreds of emails that he has had in the past week). personally i just write on the email "cv and application in attachments" and title of email for example "Photographer apprentice".
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    no, cv and application are two different things, writing them on same file looks noobish and you dont want that. you should send the cv as attachment and application also as an attachment in separate file or just write it on the email message thing(better to put it as attachment because its easier for the employee to go through the applications without having to go through all hundreds of emails that he has had in the past week). personally i just write on the email "cv and application in attachments" and title of email for example "Photographer apprentice".
    What is an application then? I have never heard about it, nor in fact anything else than a resume and a motivational letter. Maybe it's another thing that's different in the cultures, maybe it's accustomed in the US, but not here.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typoz View Post
    What is an application then? I have never heard about it, nor in fact anything else than a resume and a motivational letter. Maybe it's another thing that's different in the cultures, maybe it's accustomed in the US, but not here.
    Im from finland, not US. "A curriculum vitae (CV) provides an overview of a person's experience and other qualifications." -wiki , its not the application itself, its just a list of things you have done in the past and you can list hobbies and other knowledge you have, resume is just another name for cv. I think motivational letter is just another word what i was talking about, that is what you tailor for each job separately and thats where you write why you should be hired etc and tell about your personality etc. as long as they motivate the employer to hire you.

    Here is what google images gave as a result for job application letter:



    and here is some sample cv:


    edit. and its good to put some small pic on your cv, but its not necessary
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Im from finland, not US. "A curriculum vitae (CV) provides an overview of a person's experience and other qualifications." -wiki , its not the application itself, its just a list of things you have done in the past and you can list hobbies and other knowledge you have, resume is just another name for cv. I think motivational letter is just another word what i was talking about, that is what you tailor for each job separately and thats where you write why you should be hired etc and tell about your personality etc. as long as they motivate the employer to hire you.

    edit. and its good to put some small pic on your cv, but its not necessary
    Apparently it is just a different word.

    I think I'm gonna keep my CV without a picture.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Yes. When I needed money to pay for college, my first job was washing dishes. Then I switched to housecleaning because the pay and schedule were better. I really wanted to work in the library, though, and after months of stopping by to ask for work, was hired to shelve books (boring^3). Then I was given an amazing job working directly for the head librarian. I got to do special projects, and get experience in every department of the library, from circulation to cataloging to the bindery. Then I learned about a consulting firm I wanted to work in. Again, after checking in with the boss for several months, was hired to do clerical work. Upgraded to research intern in 6 months. This is how one advances in the work world. Rarely do we step into just the job we want right away.

    Stopping by? If you leave your resume, why do you need to stop by? I mean, if I was the manager, after the second time I would just reassure you that I'll call you if I need a worker, I would expect you to not come any more and await for the call if we're hiring. But that's me of course. Also, at least around here, libraries don't have managers inside, they have a clerk or if it's a bigger library, 2 clerks. Handing a resume to a clerk is not really useful, is it? I'm asking because one of the positions I'd be seeking would be to sell hardware, and hardware stores only have clerks as well.

    What I was thinking here, is that being self-taught is an accomplishment in itself, especially if formal credentialing is not required. (In the U.S. IT people increasingly are expected to have CompTIA or similar credentials - I even had to get one, and I'm not in IT!) It would be unique, and might make a great impression with the right manager, if you could append to your resume a list of all the books or other resources you used to educate yourself. Almost like the syllabus of your own self-designed program of study. As it is, though, you are probably best off focusing on experience (what you have actually done) and skills.

    I haven't read any books. The best I could do is to write "read articles," but even that would be a bit of a stretch, as I usually just skim through them. I don't think managers would take me seriously if I said "I just get it intuitively, I haven't read a single book on IT nor have I learned it at school or from someone, yet I know a lot." To me, it does seem as an accomplishment, but most people just call it BS and an impossibility.

    List everything you can think of, then organize it, pare it down, prioritize the rest, and summarize in brief statements. The three categories I mentioned in my first response may not turn out to the best to organize your practical experience. See what works.

    Done that, posted the list. I think it's pretty decent, but who knows.

    OK, but if the choice is between a job doing these things, or no job at all, what would you choose? You can't be too picky at this point. You admit you lack formal work experience, so the best thing you can do for your future is to get some. Playing all or nothing can all too easily result in nothing.

    I would choose no job at all, writing code all day would be absolute torture to me.

    Yes. I designed and still maintain the website for a community group I belong to, just as a volunteer activity. They were going to pay someone to do it, but we had problems with the last external web designers. I offered to do it (1) to save money, but (2) also to retain better immediate and long-term control over the product. You could offer to do something like this at a discount or even free, and it would boost your resume considerably and get you some good references.

    Not gonna register self-employment due to the taxes, so free is the option I've picked for this one. For now anyway.

    1. You might not need to buy a suit, unless the places you want to work have a very formal environment. A good shirt/trousers, dress shoes, perhaps with a tie or blazer/sweater might be enough. Know the enviroment you are targeting. Shave/haircut are good ideas. Mostly, don't go in jeans/t-shirt or whatever you wear every day (not sure your usual dressing habits).

    As far as I'm concerned, even government institutions here don't have a very formal environment, at least in regards to clothing.

    I'd still have to get a blazer (half the suit), a shirt, shoes, trousers (the other half of the suit), a tie. I only have T-shirts, sweaters that wouldn't be fit for a workplace and jeans. In short, I don't have any clothes that I'd feel good wearing to a workplace. And besides, I like suits as they make me look professional, and I like being seen as a professional. I think a suit would fit for any work environment. Correct me if I'm wrong here.


    2. Don't worry whether the company you want to visit is officially hiring. If the job market and hiring process are anything like in the U.S., most jobs are not secured by responding to published advertisements. You almost have to apply for the position before it is open or exists, so when it does become open, the supervisor has already met you and knows you are a good fit. Yes, you may have to make alot of visits before something turns up, but just emailing resumes seems almost pointless given the competition you face.

    Actually this makes sense. I didn't think about it this way before.

    3. How to approach managers, or even the receptionist, is indeed a daunting prospect. I'm not sure exactly what you did helping your father with sales, but think of it more as selling the product "you" than responding to a job posting. Obviously, if a company has advertised a position, match up your skills with the requirements, and present that to the manager. In the absence of a position listing, look at what the company does and imagine how you could best contribute. Do they need website work? network management (a larger comany, or one with separate locations)? basic user support? Do they do online sales, CAD, or computer graphics? 3-D printing has become a big new area here, especially for small companies. Most of the work of this process is in CAD and interfacing with the equipment.

    Well this is a problematic subject to me, to be honest. If I wanna know how I can help someone, I have to know what he needs - don't mistake this with me knowing what I CAN do in general. It's hard to determine what a company needs when the company isn't very public, posting news from time to time and that's all. That's what most companies do. Few companies are active in Facebook and other social networks, mostly they post the same things they post on their site. In fact, MOST companies don't even have news section in their sites, they just have a few pages describing what they do, if they offer any services, if they're hiring, contacts, etc.. I can't determine what they need (hence how I can help them) from that. Definitely need advice on this topic.

    4. When you visit a comany (having researched and planned out your personal sales pitch), simply ask to see the supervisor or manager. If you can find the name of the supervisor or a department head from the website, ask for them by name. When you meet them, introduce yourself, then start right in. Tell them you are looking for your first entry-level position doing [kind of work]. You understand their company does X, Y, and Z and thought it would be a good fit with your skills, since you have experience doing A, B, and C. If you keep it brief (< 3 min), only the rudest manger will cut you off. Ask if there are any opportunities at their company. Odds are, the answer will be no. Follow-up questions then become important: does the manager anticipate hiring in the forseeable future? does he/she know of any other similar companies that might be hiring? and finally, what skills does his/her company find in most demand now? Give the manager your resume anyway and ask them to keep it on file in case anything changes. Be sure to thank them for their time. If you can get the manager's email address, follow up with a brief note: "Thanks again for speaking with me today. Please do let me know should you need anyone with my skills, as I would be interested in working at a company like yours that does A [or for reason Q]." Then, you are in their inbox and easy to contact!

    Thanks, this was a great source of information and inspiration - I have quite a few ideas whirling in my head right now.

    5. The hard part may be getting to see the manager to begin with. My only advice is to role-play this with a friend, and role-play the pitch to the manager, too. You can go through various permutations of: "Mr. Smith isn't here today." "Do you have an appointment?" "What is this concerning?" and if you answer that, possibly "We aren't hiring right now." There is an effective response to each of these. One might in fact be to make an appointment with someone (see 6 below). Also, if you don't have the name of the manager or department head, this is a good chance to get it. Don't ask "who is hiring", but rather "who is in charge of product development, or the IT department, or the company network, etc."

    Don't have anyone to role-play with, and I'm not the kind of guy who rehearses in front of a mirror... But yea, I'm definitely going to give it some thought. I like to be "ready" at all times anyway.

    6. Have you ever heard of "informational interviews"? Here it means to set up an appointment with someone at the kind of company you want to work for, just to get information about the industry as a whole, current needs and trends, and what skills are most relevant. It is bad etiquette to try to wrangle a job directly from such a meeting, though making a good impression can't hurt. If you can get a lead on someone both knowledgeable and helpful, they should have some valuable advice on how to market yourself, and possibly some contacts for networking. Treat this like a real interview: do your homework, dress nicely, and follow up with a thank you note (preferably snail mail).

    I haven't actually, but they remind me of the business class, there was 3 or so meetings in 4 years with bank and factory managers, where we got to ask questions about their business. I am wondering if it would be appropriate to try it here, I haven't heard anything about such activities, so I presume it is not accustomed here. Calling up and asking to set up a meeting with the manager to get information about the field would sound like a call to a consulting firm to me. I'm afraid I can't find out the answer from others either.
    Well, so far used all the advice I could get, posted my current resume, except the goal statement, on which I'll work when I'll figure out the "quality" of my resume. By the way, I can comment on the resume, as in give more details about certain points.

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