User Tag List

12 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 11

  1. #1
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6?
    Posts
    2,191

    Default Ideal Learning Environment

    I think I asked this at another forum that is now defunct, but it was a pretty interesting discussion there and I imagine it would be here too.

    What is your ideal learning environment? Your "perfect classroom" or "perfect school"?

    Some questions to consider in your answer:

    Who is your teacher, and what credentials does this person have?
    How involved in your learning process is your teacher?
    Who controls the direction of the learning? Your teacher? Your class as a whole? You?
    Are there other people in your class?
    What role do they serve, if any, in your learning process (as they, obviously, are primarily involved with their own processes)?

    How independent are you allowed to be?
    How collaborative are you allowed to be?

    What does your typical learning environment (if you have one) look like in terms of physical stuff (room arrangement, light, etc)?
    What materials are available to you?
    What rules are in place, if any?

    What is the ultimate goal of the school/learning experience (ie, what do you "get" when you finish)?
    Who dictates the curriculum?
    What courses are required for completion of the experience? Why?


    That should be enough to chew on. But feel free to answer questions not asked.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  2. #2
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INfj
    Posts
    3,741

    Default

    My ideal learning environment? Hmmm place needs to be constructive... I'm okay with a teacher lecturing... but I would prefer small group learning, with room to explore whatever that comes up. A general outline is nice... but I hate rigid lesson plans. As to "tests"... I think it's more useful to test for understanding by using what you've learned rather than taking written exams. Better incorporation of the material so it stays with you better.

    Some questions to consider in your answer:

    Who is your teacher, and what credentials does this person have?
    The thing is... for me, the teacher doesn't just have to be a teacher. I believe in continual learning... the teacher leads the learning process I suppose. As to credentials... no. Papers to me mean very little... The teacher should know what he/she is talking about... and admit what they don't know... no BS... pretty easy to spot... and I hate that.

    How involved in your learning process is your teacher?
    Being around... there when you need him or her. Actively involved but no spoon feeding.

    Who controls the direction of the learning? Your teacher? Your class as a whole? You?
    Everybody... it goes wherever it goes

    Are there other people in your class?
    People? Sure... why not. Small group please.

    What role do they serve, if any, in your learning process (as they, obviously, are primarily involved with their own processes)?
    People are always nice to talk to when you're learning something... to check your understanding... to come up with new ways of looking at things.

    How independent are you allowed to be?
    Well independent means you get to do whatever you want right? And if you want to work with other people... that's within your right too. So yes to freedom of choice.

    How collaborative are you allowed to be?
    Same answer as above... freedom of choice.

    What does your typical learning environment (if you have one) look like in terms of physical stuff (room arrangement, light, etc)?
    What materials are available to you?
    What rules are in place, if any?

    Ummmm I don't think about these things... chances are under most circumstances, I wouldn't notice my environment too much.

    As to rules... common courtesy would do wouldn't it?

    What is the ultimate goal of the school/learning experience (ie, what do you "get" when you finish)?
    Ummmm depends on what it's about... A piece of paper is nice to show to people... but it's not really useful in anyway. I guess I want to get some skills or useful knowledge out of it.

    Who dictates the curriculum?
    I dislike dictators...

    What courses are required for completion of the experience? Why?
    Whatever that's necessary for your understanding or for completeness of the learning objectives? *scratches head*

  3. #3
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INXP
    Posts
    5,584

    Default

    Have you come across the "learning styles" psychometric? It's quite useful and helps people identify if they are do'ers (learn by project and/or giving presentations), passive (reading alone or sitting in a passive lesson), pragmatists (applying it practically with a real world situation), theorists (understanding the principles then applying them to the situation, in a self generated way). I'm paraphrasing this somewhat, but I expect you get the idea. It's done by way of a quiz in the standard psychometrics way that then guides you into a primary and secondary learning style.

    I find this quite helpful with my students and staff when helping them look at learning options - as we are able to deliver all of those approaches. In particular I reinforce to the line managers that they must not allow their own learning style to influence someone they are guiding ie just because they'd usually prefer to read a book doesn't mean they should make the student read a book. The student might prefer to help out in a project, for example.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6?
    Posts
    2,191

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    As to rules... common courtesy would do wouldn't it?
    In your learning utopia, absolutely. In real life, unfortunately, I have found that some people need that spelled out for them.

    Interesting answers!

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    Have you come across the "learning styles" psychometric? It's quite useful and helps people identify if they are do'ers (learn by project and/or giving presentations), passive (reading alone or sitting in a passive lesson), pragmatists (applying it practically with a real world situation), theorists (understanding the principles then applying them to the situation, in a self generated way). I'm paraphrasing this somewhat, but I expect you get the idea. It's done by way of a quiz in the standard psychometrics way that then guides you into a primary and secondary learning style.

    I don't know that I've seen this specific tool with these particular terms used, but I'm certainly familiar with learning styles. This seems to be a little different than what I've seen (which would be visual/auditory/kinesthetic plus Howard Gardner's multiple intelligences) but not too far off.

    So, with that in mind, a few more questions:

    How do you best learn? By doing a project? By watching/listening to somebody? By applying it in a real-world context? By ... theorizing (I'm not sure how to make that more succinct)?
    What are your intelligences? How would a teacher allow you to use your strengths and develop your weaknesses?


    Carry on!
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  5. #5
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INXP
    Posts
    5,584

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen;215902

    I don't know that I've seen this specific tool with these particular terms used, but I'm certainly familiar with learning styles. This seems to be a little different than what I've seen (which would be visual/auditory/kinesthetic plus Howard Gardner's multiple intelligences) but not too far off.

    So, with that in mind, a few more questions:

    How do you best learn? By doing a project? By watching/listening to somebody? By applying it in a real-world context? By ... theorizing (I'm not sure how to make that more succinct)?
    What are your [URL="http://www.ldpride.net/learningstyles.MI.htm#Multiple%20Intelligences%20E xplained"
    intelligences[/URL]? How would a teacher allow you to use your strengths and develop your weaknesses?


    Carry on!
    I learn by reading and I learn by delivering teaching. So, I can learn in two primary ways that a teacher/facilitator can work with me

    1) Go read this book on the subject. I tend to memorise stuff easily so I may not need testing.

    2) Prepare a lecture to an interested group on this technical area. The act of going through the material, preparing and delivering a seminar is a good way.

    Both of these are oddly self centered, despite the latter seeming quite inclusive; what I want is an opportunity to deliver the technical material from my head to the audience.

    I also learn through creativity. So, to use a real world example, I am not much interested in my job in the use of what is quite a technical area - corporate demergers. it's a very dry subject, and there's a lot of material. So, it bores me. But, give me a real world example, a flip chart and some coloured pens, and an intelligent sounding board who'll listen and test my assumptions for soundness (an IXTJ works well for this) and I'll master the material and develop a solution.

    Weaknesses :

    I'm not good on completion. So I need help with project management and finalising assignments. Not a learning style, as such, but an important part of the subject. In the real world I buy my SJ - I find an understudy who can learn from me technically, but at the same time organise my reminders and stuff. In a sense it's a mentor with a notebook. This doesn't cure me of my weakness, but it helps me learn the importance of relevant teamwork in delivering critically important advice to my clients.

    The strengths rely on the same things, in a sense. Free me from unnecessary bureaucracy (a little redundancy there...!) and keep me away from needing to memorise facts - I can but that isn't a key strength for me. So push me hard intellectually - give me challenging assignments, intellectually and give me the responsibility to deal with them on my own - it'll lead me to force some organisational skill and I may just develop something special.

    For the driest technical stuff, I have limited time but I am required in my profession to do a certain quantity of it even if I didn't already know I needed it to keep up to date. This works best for me in terms of maximum quantity and minimum fine detail. As a result I'd like my teacher to come around once a quarter and deliver a day of technical lectures that hit the big marks and leave the fine detail for me to research if I need it. In reality this is what already happens - so I am lucky enough to have the style I need.

    We also have a central training centre. Their preferred style is to get a teacher + about 10-15 students. They then introduce a subject with a handful of slides then get the students to identify the key areas that need to be learned - question and answer so that they end up with a flip chart of bullet points.

    They then allocate the bullet points - using breakout groups of about 3 students who get one point each. They'll then discuss and research it for about 15 minutes and prepare a mini presentation to the rest of the students with the teacher making intelligent comments and asking others for feedback. This style is used for most technical and soft skills courses as a matter of fact. This works well for me, as I am not shy on my feet, but for the more shy ISTJ/INTP types this is painful. So, they don't have a very flexible style in our national courses but by coincidence it works well for me. The downside is that it doesn't always hit the technical marks well, as the students may not have picked up the relevant points and there isn't always the time to follow this up due to the time taken going through relevant feedbacks.

    We also use teams of actors so that we can run real world situations - such as client interviews - in safe situations. This works quite well (although personally I find it a little hard to suspend disbelief).

    Some interesting reading for you, hopefully!

  6. #6
    Senior Membrane spirilis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    InTP
    Enneagram
    9w1 sp
    Socionics
    INTj Ni
    Posts
    2,652

    Default

    I think it's important to underline Geoff's piece about "I learn by delivering teaching." Some of my professors told me they learn more by teaching, and the few times I've had to instruct or explain things to others, I've felt knowledge cements much better in my head--it becomes less aethereal "ideas" and more concrete knowledge. It also motivates me to follow through with rounding out my knowledge of a particular subject, if only to avoid looking like a jackass if I end up spreading uncertain information.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6?
    Posts
    2,191

    Default

    I should really have limited this to talking about high school, maybe. That's what I meant about completed courses down at the bottom... but that's okay. We can roll however.


    Who is your teacher, and what credentials does this person have?

    Credentials may not matter that much, but I would like the person who teaches me to be very knowledgeable and trained in pedagogy. I also appreciate someone who can admit when they're not sure about something (who also has the skills necessary to find out).

    How involved in your learning process is your teacher?

    As involved as s/he needs to be, depending on how well I am grasping the information and mastering the objectives. I like a modicum of freedom, but I also don't want to be left totally alone while I struggle with something.

    Edit: Teachers are supposed to know what questions to pose next; I'd say that my ideal teacher would both do this and teach me how to ask those questions myself.

    Who controls the direction of the learning? Your teacher? Your class as a whole? You?

    In my learning utopia, there is a "community of learners" and roles are kind of fluid. I would say that we'd work together and pursue questions together. In this case, the teacher is more of a facilitator than a dictator.

    Are there other people in your class?

    Yes. I tend to prefer people of my ability level or higher, honestly, because I like to have something to push myself towards. I can be very competitive, and I have found it (while unattractive in some contexts) to be an asset in my education. In the right environment, I suppose that the ability levels of the students wouldn't matter, but I have found (as a teacher) that it's pretty hard to effectively respond to really disparate levels.


    What role do they serve, if any, in your learning process (as they, obviously, are primarily involved with their own processes)?


    I've enjoyed classes most in which it was important to talk to my classmates. Peers as discussion partners is ideal. I don't really like working in a group to present a product because I'm kind of a control freak... but I like the collaborative process of conversation and building knowledge/understanding together.


    How independent are you allowed to be?
    How collaborative are you allowed to be
    ?

    Freedom, as nightning said, is good.


    What does your typical learning environment (if you have one) look like in terms of physical stuff (room arrangement, light, etc)?
    What materials are available to you?
    What rules are in place, if any?

    I prefer an environment that is not too distracting, that provides access to technology and books, and operates on rules of common courtesy and respect.

    What is the ultimate goal of the school/learning experience (ie, what do you "get" when you finish)?

    A skill set and knowledge base is what you get that matters. Pieces of paper help us go to the next level, but those pieces of paper are supposed to signify that you are capable of doing certain things.

    Who dictates the curriculum?

    I actually don't have a problem with state curriculum, but I think that it would be great for people to be able to have input regarding what specific things they'll study.

    What courses are required for completion of the experience? Why?


    I'm not actually sure on this one. I do think that a standard in the core areas (English, Math, Science, Social Studies) is important, and I think everybody can benefit from exposure to art and practical stuff.


    How do you best learn? By doing a project? By watching/listening to somebody? By applying it in a real-world context? By ... theorizing (I'm not sure how to make that more succinct)?


    Watching and listening is fine, and theorizing works well for me too. I'd benefit from any of these, actually.

    What are your intelligences? How would a teacher allow you to use your strengths and develop your weaknesses?

    I have strong interpersonal skills--I collaborate well, and I learn well from discussing with other people. I'm also very verbal. My weaknesses are spatial and probably mathematical, though I think I'm just lazy about math. I think teachers should offer choice as much as possible--there are often lots of ways to get to the same objective. Teachers should also require students to stretch themselves by doing something that engages their weak spots.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6?
    Posts
    2,191

    Default

    I also learn more than anything else by teaching. That's because teaching requires you to figure out how to really break down a subject so that someone understands it.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  9. #9
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INfj
    Posts
    3,741

    Default

    Agreed with learning by teaching. If you can't explain the information to a layperson, then you don't effectively know the material. I would call it a test for mastery. Knowing the information well enough so that you can deliver the material in the best form for the particular learner. You can't do that without full understanding.

    As to rules... yes Eileen... some people do need them. Especially children so they know what to expect. I was thinking more along the lines of a mature learning group...

    Random question that came to me:
    In many university programs... there's a "breath requirement" I.e. students are required to take a certain number of credits outside of their particular field. Science students taking Arts courses for example.

    Is this is useful? Or just a waste of time?

  10. #10
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INXP
    Posts
    5,584

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    I should really have limited this to talking about high school, maybe. That's what I meant about completed courses down at the bottom... but that's okay. We can roll however.
    I can understand the point. I know I was talking about workplace, but in some senses it isn't that different. We take on new students each year (like I was, long ago). They go through an organised course of study with a dedicated study counsellor, and attend residential courses. The completion is them passing over 3 years a serious of professional exams then end with a recognised regulated qualification. In short, it's like doing a(nother) degree.

Similar Threads

  1. Standard learning pattern?
    By Xander in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 09-12-2007, 04:56 AM
  2. How the Brain Learns
    By labyrinthine in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 08-28-2007, 07:08 AM
  3. [NT] Richard Feynman: Ideal NT?
    By Usehername in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 06-09-2007, 11:22 AM
  4. The Feminine Ideal
    By labyrinthine in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 82
    Last Post: 05-24-2007, 11:11 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO