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Frustrating Desire?

violet_crown

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I have, actually. I have made her to think about Fe, and possibly other cognitive functions. I've also found out how she tests. Not only me, but everyone who's going to comment on her post before that.

Why does everything have to do something with undermining others and their opinions to some people? I don't get it. To me, it's just a discussion. I've noticed this more than once, though it often comes from F types, as they relate to the person rather than to the object or the subject.

Though I recognize by now that the chance of you seeing that you're by any means at fault of anything (ever, most likely) are slim to none.

To which I'll add that I feel very little that is productive is going to come out of continuing exchange. I can't tell if you're trolling or there's just something genuinely wrong with you, but it's immaterial to me at this point.

[MENTION=15963]Aleda[/MENTION], my apologies for derailing your thread. I'll respond to your question regarding Fe shortly.
 

Evo

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I relate to you and understand where you're coming from. I mean, I'd substitute power for fame (e8 vs e3 preference), but that's about it.

I have a couple of thoughts on this. Like you, despite ambition and a strong drive, I was in many ways a kind of empty vessel. I had a general idea of what I liked and what I didn't like and what my strengths were, but no clear burning desire to become one thing. Our instincts are to lead and organize, but we're not necessarily particular as to what. Because to us, it really doesn't matter-- Ni renders certain principles universal.

I think it's hard for ENTJs because we're Fi last, so our personal feelings on things can frequently be a blind spot. There have been a couple of things that have helped me develop Fi that I'd recommend for you to try. The first would be connecting with people who use Fi better than you do, explaining your problem, and asking for help. I've been blessed to have a lot of really tremendous NFPs (and even an INTJ or two) in my life who have taught me a great deal about how to navigate some of my inferior Fi issues, and I'm a lot better for it. Having a deeper appreciation for Fi will help you determine what's really in your heart, and will help you know how to attain those things in a way that's right for you.

The second thing that has been crucial for me has been learning to meditate. Having an introspective practice like meditation helps you to figure out what's going on with yourself (Fi), and strengthen your connection to your inner guidance (Ni).

Last bit of advice: focusing on fame is counterproductive, honestly. You should focus on simply being excellent, and recognition will automatically flow from that. If you focus on the recognition and external validation first, it fucks up your priorities, and that "empty vessel" thing we have as ENTJs will degenerate into outright hollowness. Do your best, strive as hard as you can, and shit will turn out the way it's supposed to. No more, no less.

Can we get married? lol j/k

You just explained my whole life...lol and you sound like god in the last paragragh lol.

Except I'm a 6 and I struggle with ambiguity....so I REALLY don't know myself...but I do know this empty vessel you speak of.

personal feelings on things can frequently be a blind spot <---This is so true and ironic....because I didn't even know I was like this til this year<---and that's because I don't think about my personal feelings that I have about my personal feelings....sighs what a mess lol
 

violet_crown

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Very ironic, considering that you said that I've added nothing to the thread, and now you're offering to comment on what came out of my post about Fe. :D

No, you narcissistic prick. It is not ironic. You did not add anything with your bullshit. You just created a mess. She asked me a question as a result, and I'm trying to put her mind at ease. The end.
 

Cellmold

Wake, See, Sing, Dance
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Not necessarily, especially when we're talking about Te. Te is there to question things, not to ask "am I right?"

Te is more to do with organisational step by step logic as in A + B will lead to C with repeatable and predictable results. I would say given this it is not that unusual for a Te dominant type to ask for advice on which steps would produce the best outcome.

In fact I would say that looking for help from those who are experienced enough to give it out in a useful manner is quite logical and certainly rational.

It is more illogical to rely solely upon the merit of one's own assumptions...especially if as a person that individual is at a point where they, quite literally, dont know what to do next.
 
G

Glycerine

Guest
If you are good at it, think about taking as many math and science classes (and possibly advanced classes) as you think you can... it opens up more doors for when you do decide. Also, it's best not to get tunnel vision on your plans or it closes off more opportunities than it opens... be goal-oriented but flexible. I learned that the hard way. And, don't do something just because you think you should but because you really want to in regards to a goal.

You still have some time to decide though.
 

Nicki

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If you are good at it, think about taking as many math and science classes (and possibly advanced classes) as you think you can... it opens up more doors for when you do decide. Also, it's best not to get tunnel vision on your plans or it closes off more opportunities than it opens... be goal-oriented but flexible. I learned that the hard way. And, don't do something just because you think you should but because you really want to in regards to a goal.

You still have some time to decide though.

Hmm I'll definitely do that. I have goals but I really just don't know what to do. I feel aimless and frustrated. I don't know how to find what I actually love doing. I know what I want but I don't know why. I don't know whether I'd be wasting time in pursuing these goals.
 
G

Glycerine

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You are still way ahead of most 14 year olds. By the time they figure it out, you will probably have a good idea of what you want to do.
 

Nicki

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You are still way ahead of most 14 year olds. By the time they figure it out, you will probably have a good idea of what you want to do.

Thanks although it seems like everyone else has an idea of what they enjoy doing while I don't. I'm probably being impatient but I really want to figure out what my passion is this year.
 

Evo

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Thanks although it seems like everyone else has an idea of what they enjoy doing while I don't. I'm probably being impatient but I really want to figure out what my passion is this year.

I get upset when I see that people are telling you to not do a certain thing because it's percieved as bad...(I'm talking about fame) what fame may mean to you, may mean something else to others, anyways. Just had to put that out there...Also I'm annoyed that anyone is saying that your need for fame is a negative thing (even though it may be) because you should follow what YOU want to do.(that's a great example of Fi btw)<---I hold a core value of independence..so once that's violated i'm pissed. Also as an ENTJ...I know what it's like to be ahead of everyone at the age of 14...and actually so do most entj's I'm assuming....and others look at you and say that you're only 14 ...blah blah blah...so the hell what? I hated that crap then and I still hate it now... it's so condescending.(this is still Fi btw because it obviously hits home...lol) <---also If I have now over stepped in your thread I'm sorry.


IMO though [MENTION=7254]Wind-Up Rex[/MENTION] is exactly right when he says "focusing on fame is counterproductive, honestly. You should focus on simply being excellent, and recognition will automatically flow from that. If you focus on the recognition and external validation first, it fucks up your priorities, and that "empty vessel" thing we have as ENTJs will degenerate into outright hollowness. Do your best, strive as hard as you can, and shit will turn out the way it's supposed to. No more, no less."

^^^that's if you're going for fame.... a lot of people need to develop thier inner world before the outer world reflects it.
[MENTION=15978]Typoz[/MENTION] "Fe is what asks for approval. ENTJs are unfamiliar with Fe, in fact, I believe that Fe is the last function in the ENTJ function stack. "

I have done a lot of thinking about this...and I came across Lenore Thompson...she's the author of a book called Personality Type an Owner's Manuel. I actually really believe what she is talking about...first she gives the layout of the brain and where the functions are located in the brain...ie Extraverted Judgement is on the left side and Introverted Judgement is on the right side...anyways...it turns out that Te and Fe are both front left brain functions...therefore it's easy to change between them..and actually, often we do (that's what happens when our bad side comes out)<---or our UNCONCIOUS...usually the function that's the last in the stack is the second to be used, especially in stressful situations...I feel like this is a compromise between you and wind-up rex cause I agree with him actually...being an eNtJ and all I am constantly looking for feedback......and I think you maybe took the OP as Aleda asking for validation or something maybe?...I definately took it as her wanting feedback...though ...the only thing is she didn't even ask a question lol which I find funny. And ENTJ's that have been through unhealthy times are going to have Fe developed a little cause of lack of confidence from being unhealthy. And just cause someone's an ENTJ, doesn't mean that they're a person that acts like they know what they're doing lol <---they don't have it all figured out either...lol and I feel like they are the first ones to admit that too lol
 

Nicki

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I get upset when I see that people are telling you to not do a certain thing because it's percieved as bad...(I'm talking about fame) what fame may mean to you, may mean something else to others, anyways. Just had to put that out there...Also I'm annoyed that anyone is saying that your need for fame is a negative thing (even though it may be) because you should follow what YOU want to do.(that's a great example of Fi btw)<---I hold a core value of independence..so once that's violated i'm pissed. Also as an ENTJ...I know what it's like to be ahead of everyone at the age of 14...and actually so do most entj's I'm assuming....and others look at you and say that you're only 14 ...blah blah blah...so the hell what? I hated that crap then and I still hate it now... it's so condescending.(this is still Fi btw because it obviously hits home...lol) <---also If I have now over stepped in your thread I'm sorry.


IMO though [MENTION=7254]Wind-Up Rex[/MENTION] is exactly right when he says "focusing on fame is counterproductive, honestly. You should focus on simply being excellent, and recognition will automatically flow from that. If you focus on the recognition and external validation first, it fucks up your priorities, and that "empty vessel" thing we have as ENTJs will degenerate into outright hollowness. Do your best, strive as hard as you can, and shit will turn out the way it's supposed to. No more, no less."

^^^that's if you're going for fame.... a lot of people need to develop thier inner world before the outer world reflects it.

[MENTION=15978]Typoz[/MENTION] "Fe is what asks for approval. ENTJs are unfamiliar with Fe, in fact, I believe that Fe is the last function in the ENTJ function stack. "

I have done a lot of thinking about this...and I came across Lenore Thompson...she's the author of a book called Personality Type an Owner's Manuel. I actually really believe what she is talking about...first she gives the layout of the brain and where the functions are located in the brain...ie Extraverted Judgement is on the left side and Introverted Judgement is on the right side...anyways...it turns out that Te and Fe are both front left brain functions...therefore it's easy to change between them..and actually, often we do (that's what happens when our bad side comes out)<---or our UNCONCIOUS...usually the function that's the last in the stack is the second to be used, especially in stressful situations...I feel like this is a compromise between you and wind-up rex cause I agree with him actually...being an eNtJ and all I am constantly looking for feedback......and I think you maybe took the OP as Aleda asking for validation or something maybe?...I definately took it as her wanting feedback...though ...the only thing is she didn't even ask a question lol which I find funny. And ENTJ's that have been through unhealthy times are going to have Fe developed a little cause of lack of confidence from being unhealthy. And just cause someone's an ENTJ, doesn't mean that they're a person that acts like they know what they're doing lol <---they don't have it all figured out either...lol and I feel like they are the first ones to admit that too lol

Thanks! This made a lot of sense and I definitely agreed with you. I don't want fame because I want external validation, I want fame because I realize that we live in world that's practically run by celebrities and your opinions also count more. I don't want to settle down and do nothing, I hate that, I get depressed because I feel directionless. I want to know what my goals are right now and I want to work towards them. I love getting a head start. Oh don't worry, you didn't do anything wrong.

That's very interesting. I wanted advice and ideas that I could think over and get inspired by. But yeah, that makes sense.
 

Not_Me

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Why did you want to achieve them in the first place? I agree with you. I have no goals at the moment though and I feel aimless...
I think we all strive for something because we predict that it will bring happiness. Psychologist Dan Gilbert has an interesting presentation on this: http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gilbert_asks_why_are_we_happy.html I agree with much of what he said.

Other than fame, what do you not have now that you think will make you happy if you achieve them in the future?
 

Nicki

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I think we all strive for something because we predict that it will bring happiness. Psychologist Dan Gilbert has an interesting presentation on this: http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gilbert_asks_why_are_we_happy.html I agree with much of what he said.

Other than fame, what do you not have now that you think will make you happy if you achieve them in the future?

Definitely and I'll check that out. I want to find a passion in life, meet peers with the same values as mine, and get respect.
 

Not_Me

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Definitely and I'll check that out. I want to find a passion in life, meet peers with the same values as mine, and get respect.

Life is similar to playing video games. Certain achievements will give you more power and enhance your ability to achieve even more. Others are simply feel good stuff.

I tend to strive primarily for goals which falls into the former category. The latter will come naturally as a result. I don't need to expend resources on them.

This approach has worked exceedingly well for me. Perhaps it can help you decide which goals are most worthwhile. What do you think?
 

Evo

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I think we all strive for something because we predict that it will bring happiness. Psychologist Dan Gilbert has an interesting presentation on this: http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gilbert_asks_why_are_we_happy.html I agree with much of what he said.

Other than fame, what do you not have now that you think will make you happy if you achieve them in the future?

This ted talk was pretty good. :) I like what he has to say.

I find myself getting impatient only because I want to know the way to apply things...and he spends a good part of the talk trying to prove that it works...I already know that it works, get to how I can implement it in my life right now. lol What it was about was kool though.
 

Nicki

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Life is similar to playing video games. Certain achievements will give you more power and enhance your ability to achieve even more. Others are simply feel good stuff.

I tend to strive primarily for goals which falls into the former category. The latter will come naturally as a result. I don't need to expend resources on them.

This approach has worked exceedingly well for me. Perhaps it can help you decide which goals are most worthwhile. What do you think?

How do you choose the feel good stuff? Hmm I see. It's a really helpful and fascinating video, thanks for sharing it with me.
 

Not_Me

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I find myself getting impatient only because I want to know the way to apply things...and he spends a good part of the talk trying to prove that it works...I already know that it works, get to how I can implement it in my life right now. lol
The simplest way is to seek out and surround yourself with people who has the same goals.
 
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