• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Job Hunting, Interviewing and Resume Tips

doublejm1

New member
Joined
Sep 9, 2012
Messages
13
MBTI Type
INTJ
Over the past few months, I've had a group of friends and relatives -- all of which are looking for work -- come to me with questions pertaining to resumes, interviewing, and the like.

I had to reiterate the same suggestions over and over again to different people. It got to the point where I felt inspired to write an article on the topic -- one that I could simply send to everyone en masse:


Here's what I don't understand, though: Why is it that so many people are clueless out there when it comes to polishing resumes, shining in interviews, etc.? Granted, I've had ample interview/job hunting experience, but it seems people just don't take the time to research the topic. And then they wonder why they aren't getting the jobs. It's not rocket science by any stretch.

Have you guys encountered the same? Are people just not aware of what it takes to land a job nowadays?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
Staff member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
27,230
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Here's what I don't understand, though: Why is it that so many people are clueless out there when it comes to polishing resumes, shining in interviews, etc.? Granted, I've had ample interview/job hunting experience, but it seems people just don't take the time to research the topic. And then they wonder why they aren't getting the jobs. It's not rocket science by any stretch.

Have you guys encountered the same? Are people just not aware of what it takes to land a job nowadays?
They are not clueless, they are careless and lazy. People don't want to do what it takes to get a job, or stay financially solvent, or prepare for emergencies, or stay healthy and fit, or understand what they are voting for on election day.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,187
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Over the past few months, I've had a group of friends and relatives -- all of which are looking for work -- come to me with questions pertaining to resumes, interviewing, and the like.

I had to reiterate the same suggestions over and over again to different people. It got to the point where I felt inspired to write an article on the topic -- one that I could simply send to everyone en masse:
(URL removed - Randomnity)

Here's what I don't understand, though: Why is it that so many people are clueless out there when it comes to polishing resumes, shining in interviews, etc.? Granted, I've had ample interview/job hunting experience, but it seems people just don't take the time to research the topic. And then they wonder why they aren't getting the jobs. It's not rocket science by any stretch.

Have you guys encountered the same? Are people just not aware of what it takes to land a job nowadays?

I don't know, but I bet with this essay you've attached as part of promoting your work, we'll be able to figure it out right quick!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

doublejm1

New member
Joined
Sep 9, 2012
Messages
13
MBTI Type
INTJ
I just find that many people don't do their research.

To be fair, some candidates do everything right and still don't come out on top -- either because someone with a little more experience edged them out, one of the candidates had a connection within the company, etc.

But far too many people I know don't get the job because they simply didn't do their homework. NOT sending a cover letter/thank you letter is one of the biggest no-nos in the job hunting arena. It annoys me when people figure that sending a cover letter/thank you letter won't make a difference. THAT strikes me as them just being lazy. Sending a thank you letter, in particular, is huge, especially if it comes down to two equally-qualified candidates.
 

mmhmm

meinmeinmein!
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
2,280
NOT sending a cover letter/thank you letter is one of the biggest no-nos in the job hunting arena.

pfft.

there's probably a correlation regarding mid-level managers,
who think a cover letter and thank you letter is one of the
decision factors, and the company's turn over rates.
 

Cellmold

Wake, See, Sing, Dance
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Messages
6,266
Unfortunately the modern workplace is designed with specific mentalities in mind.

Some people are born with them, if you arent? Fuck you, you better knuckle down and develop them. It's this blindness in perception to others who do not function in the same manner that mystifies those who do possess it.
For them it is like being told breathing is hard, it makes no sense, but that's exactly the problem; it is beyond their ken of understanding and so they berate and belittle those who struggle in the quest for job and financial security.

The truth is that the cards are held by those who are equipped to deal with them, sure people can adapt and use will power to overcome obstacles, there is no question about that, but it doesn't stop it being fucking hard.

For example, im not much of a people person and im a dunce with details, but every job ive come across in my area, (and for once the word 'every' is not an exaggeration), states that they require these qualities. So I play along, I research the company, I practice a bit of socialising and I rehearse my methods and I go over my CV....among many other things I do to prepare.

That's pretty much all I can do, it's draining like the pull of a gravitational shift, but I do it anyway, because I have to out of necessity. I have to force myself to become what the job requires, because otherwise I dont get a look-in.
But take the methodology above and then blow it up 20 times because obviously I wont be applying for just one position at one job....it's usually around 15-20 if not more.

But this is pretty much it, im not very skilled and im not that ambitious, I never have been even as a child. The arrogance of many is to assume that we are all some deviation from a singular template, that if only we had the fortitude and we tried and willed ourselves into action, we could achieve anything.

But this is naive; the heuristic evidence of life will tell you that...no not everyone is the same underneath and no not everyone can just will themselves into a mindstate of success.
Ive never understood the nature of destiny, the idea seemed completely ridiculous and full of the hopes and dreams of people who think that by just wishing...things will happen.

But as I get older I have started to realise that the metaphor of being dealt a hand is true, for example mine is full of jokers and one instructional card on how to play blackjack. Normally we remove them from the pack, but existance isn't that pleasant, existance merely is and cares not for black or white, or any other colour of human fairness.

The point here is that unlike the hand we are dealt, the world of jobs is created by us, but not for all of us...only for a mere few of us and this will possibly be the death of our species in the end...among many other potential deaths.
 

DiscoBiscuit

Meat Tornado
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Messages
14,794
Enneagram
8w9
Be confident, dress well, do background research on the company, follow application directions.

Ask (good) questions about the company.

If you go into an interview thinking it's just you being interviewed, you're already behind.

A quality candidate is interviewing the company (do I want to work here?) as much as the company is interviewing him.

Kinda like with a girl, someone with options is more attractive.
 

Istbkleta

New member
Joined
Jun 11, 2011
Messages
452
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
2
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
they are careless and lazy

I've worked with people who are incredibly careless and lazy when it comes to working with others, not stepping on other people's toes, taking into consideration others' opinions, ideas and concerns, not putting people down (unintentionally or not) and not destroying any positive atmosphere the team might have developed.

Incidentally INTJs predominate among these lazy and careless individuals.

I think most INTJs are really lazy and stupid when it comes to dealing with people and teams. I've grown to look down on INTJs for that and not trust them to get the job done. Actually I trust an INTJ to fuck it up in this regard.

Lazy, lazy, lazy and socially stupid on top of that. Always have to clean up after them.
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
Staff member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
27,230
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I've worked with people who are incredibly careless and lazy when it comes to working with others, not stepping on other people's toes, taking into consideration others' opinions, ideas and concerns, not putting people down (unintentionally or not) and not destroying any positive atmosphere the team might have developed.

Incidentally INTJs predominate among these lazy and careless individuals.

I think most INTJs are really lazy and stupid when it comes to dealing with people and teams. I've grown to look down on INTJs for that and not trust them to get the job done. Actually I trust an INTJ to fuck it up in this regard.

Lazy, lazy, lazy and socially stupid on top of that. Always have to clean up after them.
Something is a bit disjointed about this post. Do you mean to say that INTJs do a poor job of the highlighted, and that makes us lazy and careless? While I agree with the first part of this statement, the last couldn't be further from the truth. The behaviors listed do not come naturally to most INTJs. We can put out the effort to learn and use them to some extent, when it is necessary to accomplish our goal. If we are not using these skills, it is because we consider them unnecessary or even counterproductive in the situation at hand. Our actions are therefore deliberate, or at least conscious, and our considerable industry is simply channeled into other skills, generally those that align better with our strengths.

That being said, the wise INTJ will understand their strengths and weaknesses, and avoid jobs or situations that demand more social interaction and nicety than they can muster, at least until they have time and motivation to improve those skills. Meanwhile, we can usually rise to the challenge and perform acceptably, as long as it is not too protracted or too often.

In any case, the many INTJs I know manage to get, keep, and excel at some fairly challenging and demanding jobs, so we must be doing something right.
 

Istbkleta

New member
Joined
Jun 11, 2011
Messages
452
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
2
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
The behaviors listed do not come naturally to most INTJs.

They don't come natural to anybody. F people learn how to do them.

I've cleaned up too many social NTJ messes (ISTJs are actually quite amazing and far superior in this regard) and have heard too many "I'm so superior to you, my opinion is the only valid one, my way or the highway".

So I read here INTJs bashing people for being lazy and what not and all those experiences with INTJs who couldn't care enough to develop any kind of social sensitivity come to mind.

I developed social sensitivity, it didn't "come naturally" to me. It takes effort. And virtually all INTJs I've worked with (4) SUCK at it. And to be called "lazy" by INTJs who are too lazy to learn social sensitivity just pisses me off. Esp. when I remember how hard I've worked to compensate for their laziness in this regard and how little credit (esp. financial) I've got from them.

So yeah, INTJs I've met, and the ones online I've seen, are lazy about certain things. And too stuck up to admit it.


Get what I'm trying to say? The beam in yours, the straw in others' eyes ...
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
Staff member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
27,230
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
They don't come natural to anybody. F people learn how to do them.

I've cleaned up too many social NTJ messes (ISTJs are actually quite amazing and far superior in this regard) and have heard too many "I'm so superior to you, my opinion is the only valid one, my way or the highway".

So I read here INTJs bashing people for being lazy and what not and all those experiences with INTJs who couldn't care enough to develop any kind of social sensitivity come to mind.

I developed social sensitivity, it didn't "come naturally" to me. It takes effort. And virtually all INTJs I've worked with (4) SUCK at it. And to be called "lazy" by INTJs who are too lazy to learn social sensitivity just pisses me off. Esp. when I remember how hard I've worked to compensate for their laziness in this regard and how little credit (esp. financial) I've got from them.

So yeah, INTJs I've met, and the ones online I've seen, are lazy about certain things. And too stuck up to admit it.

Get what I'm trying to say? The beam in yours, the straw in others' eyes ...
Yes, and no.

1. My comments are directed at you (in other words, I include you in those I call lazy) only if you do not make an effort to prepare for job interviews, including some of the common sense advice listed by other members.

2. Social interaction does come naturally to many people. My own mother was one of these, which is why I have the fraction of a clue that I do. Balancing a checkbook, on the other hand, she was hopeless at; fortunately we had my father. I have cleaned up my share of F or S or even NTP messes, though they no doubt were different in nature from what you have dealt with. People are all different, with different gifts, inclinations, and blind spots. That is the whole point of MBTI, though it doesn't require any knowledge of personality theories to recognize it.

3. By your logic, I am also lazy about yoga, blacksmithing, stand-up comedy, creative writing, and a host of other worthwhile pursuits that I do not choose to pursue. Life is short; time and resources are limited. I therefore focus my efforts on activities of greatest interest and utility to me. This doesn't make me lazy, just selective. I cannot do everything, and I am not about to work on weaknesses that have limited impact on my daily life, at the expense of strengths on which I depend constantly. The difference between this and the lazy job-hunters is that I have no expectation of getting results in an area where I have invested no effort. If getting results there becomes a priority, I make the effort and develop the relevant skills.

Bottom line: while there is some validity to your criticism of INTJ social skills, and most INTJs would acknowledge that, it is incorrect to equate that with laziness. It is more often based on a conscious choice to direct one's efforts elsewhere.
 

Istbkleta

New member
Joined
Jun 11, 2011
Messages
452
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
2
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
By your logic, I am also lazy about yoga, blacksmithing, stand-up comedy, creative writing, and a host of other worthwhile pursuits that I do not choose to pursue.

Getting the job done does not depend on those.
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
Staff member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
27,230
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Getting the job done does not depend on those.
That depends on what the job is, and that is my point. I have all the skills necessary to get my job done very well.
 

highlander

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
26,562
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I just find that many people don't do their research.

To be fair, some candidates do everything right and still don't come out on top -- either because someone with a little more experience edged them out, one of the candidates had a connection within the company, etc.

But far too many people I know don't get the job because they simply didn't do their homework. NOT sending a cover letter/thank you letter is one of the biggest no-nos in the job hunting arena. It annoys me when people figure that sending a cover letter/thank you letter won't make a difference. THAT strikes me as them just being lazy. Sending a thank you letter, in particular, is huge, especially if it comes down to two equally-qualified candidates.

In my line of work, the thank you notes are nice but mostly I ignore them and by the time I receive them, the decision has already been made anyway. We decide by the end of the day when we interview someone if we are going to hire them, unless it is on campus and they are coming in for a second office visit, in which case they have a high percentage likelihood of getting an offer but it is still quite possible not to get one if you don't click with one or two of the interviewers.

Research is a very good thing to do but it's not generally the deciding factor. Plain and simple, the decision is made based on the perceived suitability of the candidate to not only do the work but to excel at it. It's critical behaviors, it's critical thinking skills, technical competency, demonstrated track record for getting things done, communication skills, motivation and drive, interpersonal skills, demonstrated leadership, etc. that matter. I'd be a hell of a lot more concerned about making sure your resume is framed and worded exceptionally well, free of spelling errors and sloppiness, etc., than worrying about thank you letters. If someone has a sloppy resume, I take it to mean they lack attention to detail and probably won't do a very good job with client deliverables either.
 

highlander

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
26,562
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Be confident, dress well, do background research on the company, follow application directions.

Ask (good) questions about the company.

If you go into an interview thinking it's just you being interviewed, you're already behind.

A quality candidate is interviewing the company (do I want to work here?) as much as the company is interviewing him.

Kinda like with a girl, someone with options is more attractive.

Exactly right. However, you don't want to come across as being arrogant in the way you are asking the questions because that can be a huge turnoff. GOOD questions - yes. BAD questions and you lose huge points. No questions makes it look like you aren't interested. So, instead of saying "I asked most of the questions I had already" by the time you get to your last interview, ask the best ones you have again. Tailor them to the kind of person you are being interviewed by. If it's a deep technical person, don't start asking them big picture questions about the business and if you're talking to the boss, don't ask them what the typical day is like for a hire right out of school and don't ask questions that make you sound clueless as to what the company is about or make you look like you are wishy washy or don't know what you want. Should be obvious but is not to a lot of people.


pfft.

there's probably a correlation regarding mid-level managers,
who think a cover letter and thank you letter is one of the
decision factors, and the company's turn over rates.

I guess people do write cover letters don't they. I haven't seen one of those in ages. Maybe someone in HR reads them or something.
 

DiscoBiscuit

Meat Tornado
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Messages
14,794
Enneagram
8w9
Exactly right. However, you don't want to come across as being arrogant in the way you are asking the questions because that can be a huge turnoff. GOOD questions - yes. BAD questions and you lose huge points. No questions makes it look like you aren't interested. So, instead of saying "I asked most of the questions I had already" by the time you get to your last interview, ask the best ones you have again. Tailor them to the kind of person you are being interviewed by. If it's a deep technical person, don't start asking them big picture questions about the business and if you're talking to the boss, don't ask them what the typical day is like for a hire right out of school and don't ask questions that make you sound clueless as to what the company is about or make you look like you are wishy washy or don't know what you want. Should be obvious but is not to a lot of people.

I've usually been interviewed by a boss or at least an SVP so I usually comment on the direction the company has been taking generally.
 

Istbkleta

New member
Joined
Jun 11, 2011
Messages
452
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
2
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
That depends on what the job is, and that is my point. I have all the skills necessary to get my job done very well.

I don't know you. I was talking about the INTJs I've had experience with.

I'm trying to show you the futility of labeling people as lazy as AffirmitiveAnxiety already tried explaining.
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
Staff member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
27,230
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I don't know you. I was talking about the INTJs I've had experience with.

I'm trying to show you the futility of labeling people as lazy as AffirmitiveAnxiety already tried explaining.
No, you don't know me, but that doesn't stop you from painting all INTJs with the same brush. I am singling out a behavior, not a type. I don't care what your type or your excuse is, or even what your gooal is. If you have a goal and are not putting out your best effort to reach it, you are being lazy.

AffirmativeAnxiety's comments actually support my point, by reiterating that everyone is different. The classic interview skills don't come naturally to everyone, any more than social skills, mathematical ability, or physical grace. If that's not your gift but you want or need to excel there, yes it will be hard. Yes, it will take effort. You might even argue that the skills or behaviors interviewers look for are not always necessary to do the actual job successfully. I would agree with that. If you want the job, though, you either rehearse and prepare like AA describes, however draining that may be; or you challenge the system, and show them how good you are without these skills; or you accept that you will not compare favorably with other candidates.


Unfortunately the modern workplace is designed with specific mentalities in mind.

Some people are born with them, if you arent? Fuck you, you better knuckle down and develop them. It's this blindness in perception to others who do not function in the same manner that mystifies those who do possess it.
For them it is like being told breathing is hard, it makes no sense, but that's exactly the problem; it is beyond their ken of understanding and so they berate and belittle those who struggle in the quest for job and financial security.
I do not berate those who struggle to reach their goals. I berate, or at least label as "lazy" those who do not make the effort.
 

Vie

Giggity
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
792
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
8
I find this slightly offensive.

I've had my resume looked at by three different people all who say that it is excellent. I graduated in the top ten percent of my class with high honors....and yet...

I have been without a job since I relocated to the good ole' south. Five months without a job. Excuse me - without a job that has meaning, as I work at a local retail store for minimum wage. As of this morning, I've handed out 86 resumes and applications. I've really researched the topic on what I am doing wrong, how I can do better, doing everything in my power to land a job. I've started volunteering, networking, talking to strangers since I'm new the area, all in attempts to FIND A JOB.

If your lucky enough to find a job, then why on earth would you be so negative about the people who are asking for your help?!? I'll be the first to admit that when it comes to resumes and cover letters (no how much I research), they just aren't very good. However, give me an interview and I can guarantee I'll get the job.

In addition to this, I live near a military installation. A lot of the people looking for jobs down here fall into two categories: veterans or military spouses with a HS diploma/GED. There are no jobs in the area that are suitable for those with a college education - and this is straight from the mouth of the employment director on post. Companies do not want to hire someone with a degree when they can hire someone for less with no degree to do the same job. It's a shame, but I rarely make it past the first round before I receive "you're too overqualified, thanks but no thanks" email.

It has nothing to do with "not being aware of what it takes", it simply wanting to be the best so you get a goddamn call back from someone that isn't McDonalds. Being that I lean conservatively, I have no problem working that stupid min. wage job but who in the hell are you to go saying that people aren't "taking the time" to research. You're generalizing about a topic which apparently you know nothing about. SMH.
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
Staff member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
27,230
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I find this slightly offensive.

It has nothing to do with "not being aware of what it takes", it simply wanting to be the best so you get a goddamn call back from someone that isn't McDonalds. Being that I lean conservatively, I have no problem working that stupid min. wage job but who in the hell are you to go saying that people aren't "taking the time" to research. You're generalizing about a topic which apparently you know nothing about. SMH.
I assume you are referring to the OP here. (If not, please correct me.)

Here's what I don't understand, though: Why is it that so many people are clueless out there when it comes to polishing resumes, shining in interviews, etc.? Granted, I've had ample interview/job hunting experience, but it seems people just don't take the time to research the topic. And then they wonder why they aren't getting the jobs. It's not rocket science by any stretch.
You seem remarkably quick to include yourself in this "so many people", for someone who has put in as much effort as you describe. I don't think the OP is refusing help to these people, just looking for insight on what has become an apparently disturbing trend. I don't deal much with the interviewing process, but see similar trends in other aspects of life. There is something to it, even though obviously not every person behaves this way.
 
Top