User Tag List

First 34567 Last

Results 41 to 50 of 87

  1. #41
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    9 so/sx
    Posts
    21,661

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    This goes back to my first comment. In most cases, the time and energy parents spend on homeschooling would be better invested in getting involved in their local schools to promote what is in the best interests of their children, and probably others as well.
    I actually understand this argument well but I think those who favour it do a realistic and fair assessment of the time and effort involved and likelihood of actually succeeding in any struggle with the school, who already should be performing better and already has ombudsmen or other oversight involved to try to make it so, and then conclude they only have time and resourcefulness, now, as time ticks by, to do the best for their own kids.

    The best analogy I heard for this is if you are in a sinking ship whether or not you are at the lifeboat putting your wife and kid in there or in the hull bailing water, you could save the boat being in the hull but if it doesnt work out you and your family will suffer/perish were you could at least have helped them.

    I dont want to see desertion or shunning of public education but I understand those that seek to save themselves before or instead of saving a large institutional set up that began failing years ago and has structural and resource issues which will not change no matter how much public spirit can motivate and change other things.

  2. #42
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post


    This goes back to my first comment. In most cases, the time and energy parents spend on homeschooling would be better invested in getting involved in their local schools to promote what is in the best interests of their children, and probably others as well.
    The problem with this argument being that not all people want to work within the existing system.

    However, the alternative is that there are other schools besides public or religious schools, though.

  3. #43
    Senior Member Wolfie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    MBTI
    xNxx
    Enneagram
    4w5 so
    Posts
    555

    Default

    I moved around a lot as a kid and went to a lot of different types of schools. Let me start off by saying I was never a school-type child. I have always been an independent learner who has not really gotten along well with other kids. My experience is reflective of that.

    I think public school is good for a kid in a lot of ways. I don't believe a kid should be sheltered. When I was in elementary school I made excuses to get out of going and begged my mom to homeschool me. I did most of my learning at home anyways. She made me continue with public school. In some ways I wish she had let me do my thing, in other ways I think it was a good decision. In the schools I went to there were challenge programs for me, which made it better. In the 8th grade I went to a special type of public school which was geared for alternative type kids and it was the best year of my school career.

    My mom always made sure I was going to the best public school around. I think the education was fine for me for that reason.

    I think it all comes down to the personality of the child. There are a lot of factors to take into account, each child is different and needs different things. I have had a lot of homeschooled friends and in my opinion they would have all benefitted from going to school.

    I would say start the kids in public, create a great learning environment at home, and then see what the kids seem to need as they get older and adjust for them.
    ( . )( . )

  4. #44
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    1w2 so/sp
    Posts
    2,761

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Redbone View Post
    4. Learning disabilities. It has been serious struggle to work with learning disabilities. Learning about it, getting the kids to a educational psychologist, having to fight with insurance to have them tested, having auditory testing done...crazy stuff. My oldest has dyslexia and my second has auditory processing disorder. They've both done very well because of the intervention programs at a private school and at home but...well, it's been rough for everyone.
    As someone who struggled with learning disabilities, I can sympathize.

    A word about socialization. I will admit this is a serious pet-peeve of mine. I don't know where people get this idea that if a child is homeschooled, they are going to become some socially inept adult. Socialization doesn't equal being placed in a classroom setting with same age kids. It means getting kids out, letting them live in the real world, interacting with many types of people. Homeschooling doesn't just take place 'at home'. It's also going to depend on the child. Plenty of people attend public and private schools and still turn out to be a socially awkward adult. I think this kind of thing is inborn. When people are socially awkward, it doesn't matter how they were schooled. It means that the parents didn't recognize it and didn't do enough to help them out with it. Some people need this directly taught as a skill set.
    I'd say there's a lot of truth to this.

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    They don't have training or experience and there is a risk that the education could be inadequate or uneven.
    I don't know what things are like where you are, but out here in California the average public school pretty much guarantees that kids have inadequate and uneven education.

    Also, you miss out on the opportunity to develop your social skills and facility with meeting new people and interacting with them.
    Most of my friends who are around my age are fellow homeschoolers. That has never really been an issue for me or any of them.

    I actually liked hanging out with the parents in the group because they were cops, firefighters, engineers, veterans, etc. and I found them more interesting than most of the other kids.
    1w2-6w5-3w2 so/sp

    "I took one those personality tests. It came back negative." - Dan Mintz

  5. #45
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,585

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I know this is awful to say, because Im huge on education and wanting the system to be fixed.. But if not doing my part in society means my nephews get better educated and don't have to play catch up with the rest of the world, I'd much rather.
    The U.S. has always had a strong undercurrent of rugged individualism and an "every man for himself" mentality, so you are not alone in this sentiment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I actually understand this argument well but I think those who favour it do a realistic and fair assessment of the time and effort involved and likelihood of actually succeeding in any struggle with the school, who already should be performing better and already has ombudsmen or other oversight involved to try to make it so, and then conclude they only have time and resourcefulness, now, as time ticks by, to do the best for their own kids.

    The best analogy I heard for this is if you are in a sinking ship whether or not you are at the lifeboat putting your wife and kid in there or in the hull bailing water, you could save the boat being in the hull but if it doesnt work out you and your family will suffer/perish were you could at least have helped them.

    I dont want to see desertion or shunning of public education but I understand those that seek to save themselves before or instead of saving a large institutional set up that began failing years ago and has structural and resource issues which will not change no matter how much public spirit can motivate and change other things.
    I am doubtful that most people, at least here in the U.S., do a realistic and fair assessment of much of anything. Those who homeschool especially seem more aligned with Kyuuei's attitude of taking care of themselves and theirs, and not worrying about the broader issue. Your analogy of a sinking ship is flawed in that people in such a predicament usually do not see it coming, have to act quickly under pressure, and have few options other than the two you describe. By contrast poor or failing school districts are well-known. Parents have years to plan between the birth of a child and his/her first day of kindergarten, and can start by moving to a school district that at least has potential. I suppose this is the equivalent of being able to choose a leaky ship that can at least be saved. The fact that some poor schools may be beyond help does not justify abandoning all of them.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  6. #46
    Senior Member Winds of Thor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    3w4 sx/so
    Posts
    1,859

    Default

    What are the methods available for home schooling? What is the basis of accreditation? Do parents do the teaching and then the kids take a standardized test of some sort?
    "..And the eight and final rule: If this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight."
    'Men are meant to be with women. The rest is perversion and mental illness.'

  7. #47
    Dependable Skeleton Engineer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    626

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    What are the methods available for home schooling? What is the basis of accreditation? Do parents do the teaching and then the kids take a standardized test of some sort?
    Yeah. I was homeschooled growing up. We took Iowa-series Standardized Tests to prove our academic experience. Did pretty good. Prepped for PSATs and SATs just like every other kid, took them at the local high school, and submitted them just like anyone else. Pretty much the same experience as a public school-- I would assume-- in that respect.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Ego Reparate; Ob Me Non Deficiat.
    INTJ - RCOEI - sx/sp/so - Tritype: 683 (6w5-8w9-3w4) - True Neutral
    "Yeah, wisdom always chooses/These black eyes and these bruises"
    "Over the heartache that they say/Never completely goes away..."

  8. #48
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,585

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    What are the methods available for home schooling? What is the basis of accreditation? Do parents do the teaching and then the kids take a standardized test of some sort?
    Parents can come up with their own curriculum, or just follow up on what their child takes an interest in (often called "unschooling"). Most parents want some structure, though, and find an existing curriculum that fits their needs and interests, and what their state requires. An example of these is A Beka, which has a conservative Christian perspective. Others enroll in online programs like St Thomas Aquinas Academy, that work with parents to tailor a course of study for each child, then supply lesson materials, exams, etc. They also track the grading and provide transcripts to help document a child's education. Many of these curricula and online "schools" will have some kind of accreditation. Many homeschool families augment one of these approaches with outside activities (music lessons, scouts, 4-H, etc.) or college courses for older kids.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  9. #49
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1w2 so/sx
    Posts
    11,134

    Default

    Coriolis - I understand where you are coming from in feeling that we would be best to put our efforts into improving the existing system, seeing as that is the system that the majority of people will be using.

    Unfortunately, it is difficult to find a suitable place to start from. I can say as a teacher that those who have a personal teaching philosophy and who bring up concerns or inconsistancies (even in a very diplomatic way) are seen as people who aren't team players and they certainly are not rewarded for it. Those who are accepting of whatever educational trends come along and are willing to adopt them without questioning more often are treated as valuable employees with a voice and with promotions, even if their time spent on the job is strictly during the hours that they are paid to work (9-3:30).

    I have friends in administration who have also wanted to make a difference, but found that they lacked the power to make substantial changes. They were middle management, with pressures from both above and below, but very little real authority.

    Those who make it to a superintendant level/head office in a school division are generally later on in their careers and do not have motivation or desire to create a lot of waves. If they are people who want to effect change, often they do not rise to those positions. They also are answerable to the mandates (in Canada at least) that come down from the provincial minister of education.

    Curriculum writers could make some impact, but again, there are a limited number of people who can gain a voice in this way. In general, those in charge are going to select people whose philosophy matches the current educational trends.

    My parents initially tried hard to work within the school system. When it came down to it though, they were largely left standing alone, even if other parents agreed with them privately. At a parent level and at a board level my folks attempted to effect change. They did so in a limited way, but with great impact to other's perception of them in the community. Staff perceptions of them within the school were impacted as well. I think attitudes at this point are more open towards options, but many teachers still see parents as not having a valid perspective because they are not educators. (In my mum's case, she was a teacher though).

    Therefore, I think that we need to take it on a case by case basis, improving the system where we can from whatever position we are in, and also appreciating good teachers, admin and schools where we find them. However, I think it is a machine that is very difficult to impact and changes made take a significant amount of time to be felt at a ground level. It has taken about 50 years for those who signed the humanist manifesto during the 30s to see their philosophical dreams realized at a larger level (through placing themselves in various position of influence throughout universities and schools during that time period). I don't know if in the age we live in that can be sped up or not, due to internet and other resources and I'm not sure how to go about achieving enough agreement and solidarity about what changes need to happen for reform to effectively occur.
    Last edited by fidelia; 08-07-2012 at 04:58 AM.

  10. #50
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6
    Posts
    24,060

    Default

    Well said, fidelia. I also feel very hesitant to sacrifice any years of my childrens' development to the larger cause of fixing the system. Their development happens on a much faster scale than any "change from within" I'd be able to affect in the system, if any. And I'm not convinced I'd have much of a voice, in our regular huge & anonymous public schools. Parents who try to change things quickly get branded as huge drags for the jaded teachers to have to deal with. My mom was- and she finally got tired of it and pulled us out.

Similar Threads

  1. Homeschooling: yes or no?
    By Oberon in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 91
    Last Post: 04-04-2008, 06:01 AM
  2. Product Recommendation/Great Deals
    By cafe in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10-04-2007, 10:45 PM
  3. [MBTItm] Sensors' MBTI link recommendations
    By Economica in forum The SP Arthouse (ESFP, ISFP, ESTP, ISTP)
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 08-16-2007, 05:00 AM
  4. mp3 Player Recommendations
    By Varelse in forum Science, Technology, and Future Tech
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-05-2007, 08:09 PM
  5. Mobo Recommendation
    By Nighthawk in forum Science, Technology, and Future Tech
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 06-01-2007, 05:28 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO