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College environment favors INJ's: article

Scott N Denver

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I was trying to read up on common MBTI's of college biology students, and came across the following article: http://advan.physiology.org/content/262/6/S1.full.pdf

basically it says that college [science, biology] environments are set up for and favor INJ's, somewhat ITJ's, and woah is you if your an EP or heaven forbid a ESP.

For example: "suited for students who are organized (J),
interested in abstract thinking (N), and work effectively
alone (I). Students who prefer to live spontaneously (P),
like to work with practical applications (S), and enjoy
interpersonal interactions (E) are less rewarded by the
college experience. The INJ students clearly have an advantage
over ESP students in the college environment as
it is currently structured."


"as an ESFP type: interested
in working on real problems with other people
rather than on abstract problems in an impersonal
atmosphere. The EP students in this biology course had
the lowest achievement of any personality type. This poor
performance is understandable, since the course structure
favored the IJ types who like to learn by themselves in an
orderly, planned environment."


"ESP students (124.5 points) indicate
that the course favors the person who can work well
alone, is interested in abstract thinking, and is well organized
and motivated. The EP students had the lowest
total points (127.8) of any combination of two types and
also dropped out of the course in the largest numbers."

"Success
in CA1 courses favor those who can concentrate by
themselves, pay attention to details, and stay with a single
task until completion, which favors the IJ over the EP
personality type."

"As currently taught, Human Physiology favors
students who can work efficiently by themselves (I),
live in a planned, orderly way (J), and are interested in
the practical applications of science in their lives (S). The
EP types are especially prone to failure in this course.
Instructors and students should be made aware of the
impact of personality on learning so they can modify
teaching styles and learning behaviors. Science instructors
can use a variety of teaching activities in their
courses to help motivate the different personality types
(3). The EP students especially will need to become more
organized in their study habits and develop their concentration
and reasoning skills. As teachers we need to emphasize
that all personality types are valuable, but the
learning environment in each course may favor one type
over another so that some students will have to modify
their attitudes and study skills if they are to succeed."
 

Scott N Denver

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Yeah, it definitely sounds right to me, and puts many of the "this isnt what I thought college would be like and I'm not really liking what it is" thoughts I've had over the years into context. As a student currently going through a non-NT non-intellectual not-liberal arts not-technical/science/engineering school program that is chock full of SF's and FP's, yeah traditional college seems really bent towards IN's and J's, particularly in the hard sciences.
 

Winds of Thor

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You just have to suck it up. It sucks. But it can be exciting too :D.
 

Orangey

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Pffft. College is made fore ISJs.

Remember that even IF we accept this nonsense about abstract thinking = N (which I don't, but let's not even start that discussion), there isn't even that much abstract thinking to be done in college. The number of absolute dullards who've managed to achieve graduation (some even with honors) is evidence enough of this fact.

That said, I will agree that the environment does not seem like it would be especially interesting or hospitable to EPs. Or perhaps even ENJs. I imagine there would have to be some special, driving academic interest or other ambition to keep EPs tied to the chore that is school.
 

Scott N Denver

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Pffft. College is made fore ISJs.

Remember that even IF we accept this nonsense about abstract thinking = N (which I don't, but let's not even start that discussion), there isn't even that much abstract thinking to be done in college. The number of absolute dullards who've managed to achieve graduation (some even with honors) is evidence enough of this fact.

That said, I will agree that the environment does not seem like it would be especially interesting or hospitable to EPs. Or perhaps even ENJs. I imagine there would have to be some special, driving academic interest or other ambition to keep EPs tied to the chore that is school.

There are lots of college majors out there obviously. It's no secret that physical sciences and humanities tend to draw NT's [and to a lesser extent ST's] and NF's respectively, with engineering drawing largely similar types as physical sciences. The article was about physiology/biology. I'm sure there are lots of S-focused majors [communications, business, sports sciences], out there. As a person who went to a liberal arts school for math and science training, and had to take various humanities gen ed requirements, there was lots of N abstract thinking in my curriculum.

I think college academics are least geared towards the SP's, and I'm debating which of them its least geared for though I've read ESTP and ISFP for that.
 

Orangey

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There are lots of college majors out there obviously. It's no secret that physical sciences and humanities tend to draw NT's [and to a lesser extent ST's] and NF's respectively, with engineering drawing largely similar types as physical sciences. The article was about physiology/biology. I'm sure there are lots of S-focused majors [communications, business, sports sciences], out there. As a person who went to a liberal arts school for math and science training, and had to take various humanities gen ed requirements, there was lots of N abstract thinking in my curriculum.

I think college academics are least geared towards the SP's, and I'm debating which of them its least geared for though I've read ESTP and ISFP for that.

:rolleyes:

Studying fucking biology is hardly abstract.

At any rate, the subject doesn't matter. Even if it is a fundamentally abstract subject, it is transformed into a series of mundane tasks in order to form a college course (in which the gist of the subject is supposed to be conveyed to the student...usually unsuccessfully, as demonstrated, again, by the sheer number of morons with degrees who don't know shit.)
 

Coriolis

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At any rate, the subject doesn't matter. Even if it is a fundamentally abstract subject, it is transformed into a series of mundane tasks in order to form a college course (in which the gist of the subject is supposed to be conveyed to the student...usually unsuccessfully, as demonstrated, again, by the sheer number of morons with degrees who don't know shit.)
Depends on the university, as well as the department and to lesser extent, the individual instructor. You are unfortunately correct about the ubiquity of morons with worthless degrees. Too many people have trouble admitting that college is not for everyone.
 

Betty Blue

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You just have to suck it up. It sucks. But it can be exciting too :D.

I dropped out of my history degree but it was mainly to do with external factors (three childminders i employed within the six months found full time positions and left with little to no notice) and not my ability to stay on the course itself. Though i did find it incredibly difficult to focus on details, especially course led ones... and not of my own choosing.

I keep thinking about doing a science degree, the want is growing... but it would be painful.
 

FDG

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Maybe the article refers to graduate school? I cannot see for the life of me how abstract thinking can be useful during a bachelor's. There's way too many people attending each course, thus you mostly have to regurgitate what the professor says.
 

Orangey

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Maybe the article refers to graduate school? I cannot see for the life of me how abstract thinking can be useful during a bachelor's. There's way too many people attending each course, thus you mostly have to regurgitate what the professor says.

Exactly!
 
G

Glycerine

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I felt like most of undergrad was about regurgitating information in several different ways which profs would consider abstract, original thought. Even philosophy classes were like that.... ISJ sounds about right.
 

Coriolis

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I felt like most of undergrad was about regurgitating information in several different ways which profs would consider abstract, original thought. Even philosophy classes were like that.... ISJ sounds about right.
As I said on the last page, it depends on the college/program/instructor. I suspect many colleges fit your description, but my undergrad experience was not like that for the most part. Most classes required problem-solving or original analysis and creativity, or at least that was what it took to get good grades.

My grade/high school experience was much more SJ oriented, even ESJ at times, part of why I hated it.
 

1487610420

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I dropped out of my history degree but it was mainly to do with external factors (three childminders i employed within the six months found full time positions and left with little to no notice) and not my ability to stay on the course itself. Though i did find it incredibly difficult to focus on details, especially course led ones... and not of my own choosing.

I keep thinking about doing a science degree, the want is growing... but it would be painful.

Yep, sounds about right. :yes:
 

Coriolis

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I keep thinking about doing a science degree, the want is growing... but it would be painful.
Yep, sounds about right. :yes:
"No pain, no gain" and "you get what you pay for" come to mind.

Go for it, Helen. Your efforts will be well-rewarded. If it's what you really want, you will regret settling for anything else, or taking the "easy" way out.

I work with a lady, coincidentally named Helen, who just finished her PhD in physics as a widow with two young adult children. She had to switch universities three times due to logistical and funding constraints and came from an underprivileged background to begin with, but didn't let anything stop her from reaching her goal in the end.
 

FDG

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As I said on the last page, it depends on the college/program/instructor.

In my experience, the biggest problem is...numbers. Whenever a given course is attended by hundreds of people, the grader will inevitably have little time to judge creative (yet analytically significant) proposals.

My 3rd year bachelor's classes (and, furtherly, master's) saw a strong increase in analytical requirements, which was directly accompanied by a starkly lower number of people per class. I can't claim to know the direction of causation, but that's what I observed.
 

AgentF

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an interesting article, although the data set is really lacking and dated.

i don't think my experience was skewed one way or another. i went to a science/engineering uni where i did UG + graduate coursework in biochem and philosophy. in both cases, we were graded on a curve. this was an excellent forcing function as those who needed a poke got off their lazy asses stat, or figured out how to game the system. which made it fun for everyone.

(unfortunately, we did lose a few people when midterms or finals would come around. that's when they'd lock rooftop access and students would slap these on the sidewalk next to tall bldgs for a gag:

Target_image.gif



to keep things light. or macabre. you choose.)

anyway, i don't think i was less prepared as a result of being an EP. my family does have a disproportionate number of scientists, engineers and doctors in it, and we're academically extremely competitive, so i think that prepared me for that environment. perhaps having had INT parents helped.

i'd like to see a study that includes a much larger data set that accounts for teaching and grading methodologies (and a comparison of liberal arts vs science/eng unis).
 

cascadeco

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There are lots of college majors out there obviously. It's no secret that physical sciences and humanities tend to draw NT's [and to a lesser extent ST's] and NF's respectively, with engineering drawing largely similar types as physical sciences.

Really? I'm not sure I'd draw much distinction between N's and S's as tied to physical sciences and humanities; rather than NT's and NF's respectively, I'd broaden it even further to T's and F's, respectively. (and of course that's just trending) I think a lot of the physical sciences are very 'practical'/real-world in nature, and a lot of the humanities (particularly languages) would draw huge numbers of S's- I don't really see how humanities would be more likely to be an NF thing. Also, I'm no longer sold on engineers being mostly NT's; I actually suspect it's about even, N/S alike. I think most of the engineering curriculums are extremely practical/application-based; but yes, sure, some are more theoretical/research-based.

The article was about physiology/biology. I'm sure there are lots of S-focused majors [communications, business, sports sciences], out there. As a person who went to a liberal arts school for math and science training, and had to take various humanities gen ed requirements, there was lots of N abstract thinking in my curriculum.

I think college academics are least geared towards the SP's, and I'm debating which of them its least geared for though I've read ESTP and ISFP for that.

To the OP and this post, I'd agree college coursework isn't very suited to SP's - but, we could say that about P's in general. otoh, don't know that we could even say that, because ISTP's make some very dedicated engineers, computer scientists, etc. I'd agree ExxP might have the toughest time with traditional teaching methods/grading/expectations.

And, yeah, I'd agree that IxxJ's probably ease into academic institutions (whether college, high school, or earlier) pretty seamlessly.
 
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