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  1. #11
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Pffft. College is made fore ISJs.
    Yep.
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


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  2. #12
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Maybe the article refers to graduate school? I cannot see for the life of me how abstract thinking can be useful during a bachelor's. There's way too many people attending each course, thus you mostly have to regurgitate what the professor says.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  3. #13
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Maybe the article refers to graduate school? I cannot see for the life of me how abstract thinking can be useful during a bachelor's. There's way too many people attending each course, thus you mostly have to regurgitate what the professor says.
    Exactly!
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  4. #14
    Glycerine
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    I felt like most of undergrad was about regurgitating information in several different ways which profs would consider abstract, original thought. Even philosophy classes were like that.... ISJ sounds about right.

  5. #15
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glycerine View Post
    I felt like most of undergrad was about regurgitating information in several different ways which profs would consider abstract, original thought. Even philosophy classes were like that.... ISJ sounds about right.
    As I said on the last page, it depends on the college/program/instructor. I suspect many colleges fit your description, but my undergrad experience was not like that for the most part. Most classes required problem-solving or original analysis and creativity, or at least that was what it took to get good grades.

    My grade/high school experience was much more SJ oriented, even ESJ at times, part of why I hated it.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  6. #16
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HelenOfTroy View Post
    I dropped out of my history degree but it was mainly to do with external factors (three childminders i employed within the six months found full time positions and left with little to no notice) and not my ability to stay on the course itself. Though i did find it incredibly difficult to focus on details, especially course led ones... and not of my own choosing.

    I keep thinking about doing a science degree, the want is growing... but it would be painful.
    Yep, sounds about right.
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  7. #17
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by HelenOfTroy View Post
    I keep thinking about doing a science degree, the want is growing... but it would be painful.
    Yep, sounds about right.
    "No pain, no gain" and "you get what you pay for" come to mind.

    Go for it, Helen. Your efforts will be well-rewarded. If it's what you really want, you will regret settling for anything else, or taking the "easy" way out.

    I work with a lady, coincidentally named Helen, who just finished her PhD in physics as a widow with two young adult children. She had to switch universities three times due to logistical and funding constraints and came from an underprivileged background to begin with, but didn't let anything stop her from reaching her goal in the end.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  8. #18
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    As I said on the last page, it depends on the college/program/instructor.
    In my experience, the biggest problem is...numbers. Whenever a given course is attended by hundreds of people, the grader will inevitably have little time to judge creative (yet analytically significant) proposals.

    My 3rd year bachelor's classes (and, furtherly, master's) saw a strong increase in analytical requirements, which was directly accompanied by a starkly lower number of people per class. I can't claim to know the direction of causation, but that's what I observed.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  9. #19
    Unlimited Dancemoves ® AgentF's Avatar
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    an interesting article, although the data set is really lacking and dated.

    i don't think my experience was skewed one way or another. i went to a science/engineering uni where i did UG + graduate coursework in biochem and philosophy. in both cases, we were graded on a curve. this was an excellent forcing function as those who needed a poke got off their lazy asses stat, or figured out how to game the system. which made it fun for everyone.

    (unfortunately, we did lose a few people when midterms or finals would come around. that's when they'd lock rooftop access and students would slap these on the sidewalk next to tall bldgs for a gag:




    to keep things light. or macabre. you choose.)

    anyway, i don't think i was less prepared as a result of being an EP. my family does have a disproportionate number of scientists, engineers and doctors in it, and we're academically extremely competitive, so i think that prepared me for that environment. perhaps having had INT parents helped.

    i'd like to see a study that includes a much larger data set that accounts for teaching and grading methodologies (and a comparison of liberal arts vs science/eng unis).
    I may be kindly, I am ordinarily gentle, but in my line of business I am obliged to will terribly what I will at all.
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  10. #20
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott N Denver View Post
    There are lots of college majors out there obviously. It's no secret that physical sciences and humanities tend to draw NT's [and to a lesser extent ST's] and NF's respectively, with engineering drawing largely similar types as physical sciences.
    Really? I'm not sure I'd draw much distinction between N's and S's as tied to physical sciences and humanities; rather than NT's and NF's respectively, I'd broaden it even further to T's and F's, respectively. (and of course that's just trending) I think a lot of the physical sciences are very 'practical'/real-world in nature, and a lot of the humanities (particularly languages) would draw huge numbers of S's- I don't really see how humanities would be more likely to be an NF thing. Also, I'm no longer sold on engineers being mostly NT's; I actually suspect it's about even, N/S alike. I think most of the engineering curriculums are extremely practical/application-based; but yes, sure, some are more theoretical/research-based.

    The article was about physiology/biology. I'm sure there are lots of S-focused majors [communications, business, sports sciences], out there. As a person who went to a liberal arts school for math and science training, and had to take various humanities gen ed requirements, there was lots of N abstract thinking in my curriculum.

    I think college academics are least geared towards the SP's, and I'm debating which of them its least geared for though I've read ESTP and ISFP for that.
    To the OP and this post, I'd agree college coursework isn't very suited to SP's - but, we could say that about P's in general. otoh, don't know that we could even say that, because ISTP's make some very dedicated engineers, computer scientists, etc. I'd agree ExxP might have the toughest time with traditional teaching methods/grading/expectations.

    And, yeah, I'd agree that IxxJ's probably ease into academic institutions (whether college, high school, or earlier) pretty seamlessly.
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