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Laptops For Schoolchildren?

godscollie

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I believe all children of school age eight plus should have laptops to do their school work on. Typing isn't as extroverted an activity as writing so this would be especially good for introverts but benefit extroverts as well. It is possible to remain in deeper thought whilst typing than writing because you can type automatically knowing where the keys are, hence not as extroverted an activity as manually writing. You can also work at least three times faster in type than word. A basic laptop equates well in value , no paper fees over the sum of a school life plus less trees felled (Good news for the planet). I used to struggle at school to get enough writing done over the course of the lesson and my son who is a clever INTJ used to unbelievably struggle with writing although he is well above average intelligence. When he was four years old he could play and finish games on his game console designed for twelve year + . You cannot write without fully focusing your attention on the pen and it's relation to the paper, this isn't such a problem in type. I realise a certain amount of focus goes into typing but you need more external focus to write. The problem is the school education system will automatically expect more word output per lesson if schools went into type, this is a mistake. Introverts especially want time to think, which would improve the quality of their work. The whole school system is designed around the wants and needs and pace of extroverted thinkers being in the majority. Einstein is a typical example of someone who could not make the best out of the school education system and this happens to many introverts including myself. Plus you cannot proof or adapt the language of your written work like you can in type. I definitely think moving away from paper onto laptops is the way forward. A plug adapter would have to designed to run in rows for children to plug into but I am sure technology can deal with that.

Do you agree or disagree?

Are Typology and INTP the only Centrals. I though INTJ's had their own site but all I found was a webpage with descriptions of the type but no siite. Are their any other Centrals?
 

kyuuei

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What I have noticed is as technology is integrated, the skills involving vocabulary recollection, spelling, handwriting, all go drastically down. After elementary school, Middle school is where I had a lot of problems for a while because I had to improve my hand writing and my sentence structure.

I think introducing technology is important--in stages--but that children need the skills that come from doing things by hand. Technology dependence can be a bitch. And I can already see several problems with laptops being stolen and broken, etc.

The stages I think are important:
-- Early school: Typing lessons and typing-related games
-- Later elementary school: Basic classes on microsoft office, study time with access to computers for things like final projects and essays after they have been graded via rough drafts by hand. Remedial handwriting and vocabulary classes if necessary.
-- Middle school: Mandatory classes regarding basic computer maintenance and advanced microsoft office applications, study time with access to computers and printers to assist with homework and school work.
-- Early high school: Advanced computer maintenance classes, all formal projects and papers typed, computer access
-- Late high school: Laptops available upon request, free access to computers and printers for school work and projects, most school work done online on computers, preparatory classes mandated for college (These can be substituted only for completion of a work-study transition program)

^ That's how I would set it up anyways.
 

onemoretime

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^^ Agreed.

Handwriting, and good penmanship in particular, are crucial for several skills. They help reinforce language skills through the kinesthetic feedback of actually writing the letters, along with the ordinary auditory and visual feedback. It also teaches craftsmanship - that it's not enough merely to do something, but to do it well. This is not a particularly extraversion-oriented activity either, because it requires meticulous attention to detail, along with patience and, especially if you're studying calligraphy, an understanding of where particular letterforms belong and how they will run into the subsequent letters.

I also disagree with the assertion that it is easier to remain in deep thought while typing. Part of the process of learning good penmanship is learning the rhythm of writing. It takes time and deep thought to determine what one wants to say, how that person will say it, then present it in a way that is aesthetically pleasing, and then go on to the next segment. It may be possible to type faster, but it is of little benefit if the extra words do not contribute to the writing as a whole. Stream-of-consciousness typing does not lend itself to conciseness.

Also, good luck with keeping most students from distracting themselves on the laptops, if any sort of internet access is available. Not only that, but if they're plugged in, rather than bolted, that's a huge theft risk
 

Eckhart

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And I can already see several problems with laptops being stolen and broken, etc.

That seems to be the biggest issue to me yet tbh. I guess the easiest way would be to make it stationary desktops on the desk in class for every child. They wouldn't be able to take it home then obviously, but that would also remove the risk described above. They could take their stuff they write at the school to their home with a USB stick or per internet / VPN, but that would require that they have a computer at home then again (which is the case anyway in most households now and surely in the future even more though). Or they just print their stuff at school, although that would remove some of the key advantages.

Or they would grant children the option to bring their own notebooks to school. Will be hard then to control that they don't just play games or do anything else which has nothing to do with the lesson. If it was a computer of the school, they could restrict rights for the user so they can only use relevant software. If they take their own notebooks / tablets to school, teachers cannot control it.
 

onemoretime

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That seems to be the biggest issue to me yet tbh. I guess the easiest way would be to make it stationary desktops on the desk in class for every child. They wouldn't be able to take it home then obviously, but that would also remove the risk described above. They could take their stuff they write at the school to their home with a USB stick or per internet / VPN, but that would require that they have a computer at home then again (which is the case anyway in most households now and surely in the future even more though). Or they just print their stuff at school, although that would remove some of the key advantages.

Or they would grant children the option to bring their own notebooks to school. Will be hard then to control that they don't just play games or do anything else which has nothing to do with the lesson. If it was a computer of the school, they could restrict rights for the user so they can only use relevant software. If they take their own notebooks / tablets to school, teachers cannot control it.

In my opinion, the likely solution is something similar to the technology they will be using for the Nintendo Wii U - the tablets aren't fully-functional computers themselves, but instead stream their data from a central mainframe. That would help prevent theft, as the tablets would not be functional outside of school grounds (the tablets and mainframe would be registered to one another via hardware, making it impossible to transfer tablets to another mainframe), and would also allow for more effective control of content, since the computing would be centralized.
 

Laurie

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8 is a little young. I have a 9 year old and they are still doing worksheets. In order for it to work kids need to learn how to type a lot earlier, too. It's still being offered in high school even though kids need to learn touch type a lot earlier.

I also don't see how laptops would help introverts.

My introvert does wonderfully in school (14) and my extrovert can't stand it. (12)
 

godscollie

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^^ Agreed.

Handwriting, and good penmanship in particular, are crucial for several skills. They help reinforce language skills through the kinesthetic feedback of actually writing the letters, along with the ordinary auditory and visual feedback. It also teaches craftsmanship - that it's not enough merely to do something, but to do it well. This is not a particularly extraversion-oriented activity either, because it requires meticulous attention to detail, along with patience and, especially if you're studying calligraphy, an understanding of where particular letterforms belong and how they will run into the subsequent letters.

I also disagree with the assertion that it is easier to remain in deep thought while typing. Part of the process of learning good penmanship is learning the rhythm of writing. It takes time and deep thought to determine what one wants to say, how that person will say it, then present it in a way that is aesthetically pleasing, and then go on to the next segment. It may be possible to type faster, but it is of little benefit if the extra words do not contribute to the writing as a whole. Stream-of-consciousness typing does not lend itself to conciseness.

Also, good luck with keeping most students from distracting themselves on the laptops, if any sort of internet access is available. Not only that, but if they're plugged in, rather than bolted, that's a huge theft risk

You have some good points maybe the age range should be moved to secondary school. Maybe for the first year of secondary school children should stay in written text and have typing lessons a few hours a week.I agree with this (They help reinforce language skills through the kinesthetic feedback of actually writing the letters) even though I haven't slept for a few days it does make good sense. From the second year of secondary school only English should remain written textbook style to deal with your point about reinforcing language skills and penmanship . I personally loathe writing and have never obtained a flow so perhaps it's more me rather than the norm that has trouble accessing deeper thoughts while undertaking the activity. The speed in which you can type compared to write is significant so does allow more time for how you are going to word your work.
 

godscollie

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8 is a little young. I have a 9 year old and they are still doing worksheets. In order for it to work kids need to learn how to type a lot earlier, too. It's still being offered in high school even though kids need to learn touch type a lot earlier.

I also don't see how laptops would help introverts.

My introvert does wonderfully in school (14) and my extrovert can't stand it. (12)

Your right about the age range, I changed it to second year of secondary school before I saw your post. I presumed my personal problems with broken thought trails whilst writing was one of the natures of an introverted personality but it has become worse since I have got older and is maybe more a reflection of my problems coming out of deep thought and holding onto the thread of what I was actually thinking rather than anything to do with introversion or extroversion. I can run a trail for hours but most of it vanishes when I return to the present. I need to sleep.
 

onemoretime

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You have some good points maybe the age range should be moved to secondary school. Maybe for the first year of secondary school children should stay in written text and have typing lessons a few hours a week.I agree with this (They help reinforce language skills through the kinesthetic feedback of actually writing the letters) even though I haven't slept for a few days it does make good sense. From the second year of secondary school only English should remain written textbook style to deal with your point about reinforcing language skills and penmanship . I personally loathe writing and have never obtained a flow so perhaps it's more me rather than the norm that has trouble accessing deeper thoughts while undertaking the activity. The speed in which you can type compared to write is significant so does allow more time for how you are going to word your work.

Well, I'll say this - if it weren't for the Internet, I'd have never known that I was writing improperly my entire life. My tendency was to write using the muscles of my wrist and fingers. This leads to sloppy, disjointed handwriting as it constitutes "drawing" the letters, rather than "writing" them. A few months ago, I switched to a different style of holding my pen, and using the muscles of my shoulder and upper arm to write, while keeping my wrist and finger muscles still. This has lead to a much more aesthetically pleasing and legible cursive that doesn't degrade at the bottom of the page. It also has lead to a much more even spacing of letters, and fewer mistakes with awkward cursive letters.

Handwriting seems like drudgery and a simple tool, but I've found a lot of value in how personal an expression of oneself that it represents. Part of the motivation for improving my handwriting was a sense that I was still writing like a child as an adult, and that the process would perhaps help me reflect on some aspects of maturity that I had previously overlooked. It's also fascinating how mood and emotion can effect minute changes to your handwriting, be it pressure or clustering of letters, and how this adds another dimension to writing. It's pretty cool in a lot of ways.
 

Laurie

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I find that if I have to push on the pen or pencil my handwriting is messier. I like to use sharpies because they write themselves and I just form the letters.
 

onemoretime

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It's true. Apparently, you're supposed to just barely be gripping the pen, which permits it to glide across the page more easily.
 

godscollie

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Well, I'll say this - if it weren't for the Internet, I'd have never known that I was writing improperly my entire life. My tendency was to write using the muscles of my wrist and fingers. This leads to sloppy, disjointed handwriting as it constitutes "drawing" the letters, rather than "writing" them. A few months ago, I switched to a different style of holding my pen, and using the muscles of my shoulder and upper arm to write, while keeping my wrist and finger muscles still. This has lead to a much more aesthetically pleasing and legible cursive that doesn't degrade at the bottom of the page. It also has lead to a much more even spacing of letters, and fewer mistakes with awkward cursive letters.

Handwriting seems like drudgery and a simple tool, but I've found a lot of value in how personal an expression of oneself that it represents. Part of the motivation for improving my handwriting was a sense that I was still writing like a child as an adult, and that the process would perhaps help me reflect on some aspects of maturity that I had previously overlooked. It's also fascinating how mood and emotion can effect minute changes to your handwriting, be it pressure or clustering of letters, and how this adds another dimension to writing. It's pretty cool in a lot of ways.

That's very interesting (My tendency was to write using the muscles of my wrist and fingers. This leads to sloppy, disjointed handwriting as it constitutes "drawing" the letters, rather than "writing" them). Maybe this is how i write and many children do. Maybe teachers should be aware of how you changed your style using Shoulders and upper arm and the improvement in your technique. I do not believe children should be forced to hold their pen in a certain way but which muscles you engage is a very good point. I do suffer from hand cramp when I write so maybe you have hit the nail on the head.
 

godscollie

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Until secondary school children should stay in written text.

It would be a good idea if aged eight children could be provided by the state with a laptop that could paid for in instalments by their parents. In Junior school teachers could set homework for maybe half hour, twice weekly on typing skills. Or rather set some easy questions that have to be answered on a laptop so children could develop their typing skills naturally over a two year period before entering secondary education.Their homework by working on word or office could then be emailed across to a windows account that has been set up by the teacher. This way children should be ready to work via laptop by the start of secondary education.

For the reasons One More Time has pointed out, Science should stay in written text in secondary education.

Can i thank everyone for their input especially on handwriting and technological aspects.
 

Chaotic Harmony

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My city's public schools are already doing this. 6th grade on up now uses netbooks in classes. They no longer have books, all their books are on their netbook. That being said... It's not really helping students/teachers. Students have now gone from sending notes to each other to IMing each other. They've gone from playing on their cell phones to playing on the internet. Like everything else, there are negatives that come along with the positives. One of the biggest negatives is that kids these days are too damned smart. Several of them have found proxy servers and used them to get to blocked websites..... And a lot of parents have been infuriated that the school provided their child with a netbook that they used to access porn. (Still amazes me that no parents see this as partially their fault)

I actually take better notes when I'm doing it on pen and paper than I do on a laptop. I've also noticed in various college courses that I had a harder time taking notes when I could hear all the clicking of keys around me. I do use a laptop for a lot of work... But my initial notes always come from pen and paper. For me, when I take notes on paper and then transfer those notes to my laptop, I tend to learn the material better. As I write out the notes I really focus on the material as it's being delivered. Then, when I get home and take those notes and transfer it to the laptop, it's reinforced in my brain again. The times that I have typed my notes in class, I haven't remembered the material as well as when I write out the notes first.

As far as our netbook program goes... They rent the netbooks to the students at the beginning of each semester, and they return them at the end of the semester. The biggest problem they are having with the netbook rental is the students can be pretty rough on the netbooks and a lot of them end up needing replacements because they've damaged them (spilled liquid on it, dropped it, etc). At least with the rental program, there isn't a big worry about theft, because everyone has the same netbook.
 

ceecee

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My middle schooler and high schooler both use netbooks as well as desktops at school. The other nice thing is that the schools set the kids up with a edu gmail account and everyone uses Google docs. Things can be worked on at home and it's especially nice for group projects or any work they might miss or need copies of. I think 8 may be a little young though, they should be writing at that stage.The only complaint our 3rd grader's teacher has is his handwriting. He rushes and it's a total mess sometimes. Otherwise he is an outstanding student and he would prefer typing too but it's a skill he has to develop.
 

entropie

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My middle schooler and high schooler both use netbooks as well as desktops at school. The other nice thing is that the schools set the kids up with a edu gmail account and everyone uses Google docs. Things can be worked on at home and it's especially nice for group projects or any work they might miss or need copies of. I think 8 may be a little young though, they should be writing at that stage.The only complaint our 3rd grader's teacher has is his handwriting. He rushes and it's a total mess sometimes. Otherwise he is an outstanding student and he would prefer typing too but it's a skill he has to develop.

Sounds like the end of the days when you charmed girls so you can copy your homework from them :D
 

Mad Hatter

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Typing isn't as extroverted an activity as writing so this would be especially good for introverts but benefit extroverts as well. It is possible to remain in deeper thought whilst typing than writing because you can type automatically knowing where the keys are, hence not as extroverted an activity as manually writing.

I don't think you could link any particular sort of handwriting to these kinds of processes.
On a related note though, I like handwriting much more since I feel more focused on the writing process than I do with typing. Typing is just producing text, but handwriting makes me think in advance of how I phrase stuff since deleting isn't as easy.


I think school kids should learn to both write and type, and as soon as possible. Despite the use of handwriting isn't as widespread anymore as it used to be, it's still an essential skill every school kid should be somewhat proficient at.

That said, learning to type is essential as well. I see a lot of people, many of them adults, who mutate into beings with two index-finger-shaped appendages attached to their shoulders as soon as they sit down to type something. Typing is a mechanical skill that can be acquired the same way writing can, and that sort of mechanical skill, more than knowing how to master all the technological aspects of computers like using the internet, word programs etc. (which can be learned at a later age) should be learned as soon as possible because it makes using a computer so much easier, and you have more time to practice if you start early.

Luckily I was able to learn it in the hospital with a laptop made for children while I was in hopsital to have my appendix removed, but I think by now every time should have some sort of program like that for schoolchildren. I think handwriting won't die out, but typing is too important not to be taught.

I find that if I have to push on the pen or pencil my handwriting is messier. I like to use sharpies because they write themselves and I just form the letters.

Ha. Nothing ever beats a good fountain pen :wink:
 

miss fortune

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I was so pissed off when my chemistry teacher in high school made me turn in a typed version of my homework instead of a handwritten version like everyone else because I apparently have "horrible" handwriting... it was so much harder to think and solve problems when I was typing instead of writing by hand, which somehow gives the mind more room to roam and it's SO much easier to show your work, which is kind of useful if it's to be seen if the kid even has an idea as to how to solve a problem :unsure:

also, I live in a decent sized city that really doesn't have much money to spend on anything at all, let alone laptops for all of the students... and there would definitely be a good number of kids getting their computers stolen or broken :doh: the city can't afford it, the state and national governments are doing a crackdown on the schools because they don't tend to preform well, so they certainly aren't going to fork over any extra cash and the parents of a good number of these kids simply can't afford a laptop for school even if they really wanted to... not to mention replacement costs for lost or broken computers (and the time in which they are being replaced and the kids won't have them)... even putting textbooks on a kindle, which would be awesome because they weigh next to nothing compared to textbooks, would be more expensive than can be afforded with the replacement costs and such... parents will pawn their kids kindle off so that they can buy whatever vice they're stuck on, they can't do that with textbooks... just to bring up some practical suggestions... you don't want to introduce even more divides educationally between the well off and the impoverished :shrug:
 
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