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  1. #41
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    No more school school school. It's time for the pool pool pool!

  2. #42
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    Money's the only real issue, I think.

    If I could, I'd probably spend a lot of time at college or university lectures and classes. If I had the choice, I'd drop in on so many subjects (When enrolled, I'd normally drop in on classes that weren't mine, just for fun. Even if I wasn't supposed to.)

    It's not useless, that's for sure, though. You learn a lot, and get a lot of experience. And learning is fun!

  3. #43
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    I disagree that college is worthless. It opens doors of opportunity. Bottom line is you won't qualify for the vast majority of jobs nowadays without that piece of paper in hand.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    I didn't enjoy college. I Don't feel like I got to really learn anything to a sufficient depth. Just kinid the into of everything. The structure my course and the graduation requimemts made it so that I couldn't really take things I was interested in outside my major. Not languages. But I did have to take calculus, a cake psychology and sociology and a bullshit multicultural English.

    I would much rather have had an apprenticeship. If I'm not going to get to study what I want then I only want to study my trade. Also I felt like most classes were destined so that you would have to cram for all the tests. I could do it but then I don't retain the material well for the future. It just seemed like it was all about getting the numbers and having a peice of paper to get a job. Not really about learning.

  5. #45
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    I think the real value of a traditional 4-year liberal arts education lies in the realm of being a haven for nurturing the opportunities that arise in a phase of change, being able to experiment safely with introducing yourself to new perspectives, new situations, new people, new ideas, new relationships, new responsibilities. I think that's of HUGE value to a person in the child-to-adult transitional phase. You are responsible for yourself, but in a protected environment. You are no longer a child and no one is going to pick up after you, but there are plenty of mentor figures around and they will keep an eye on you. You get to choose your classes, your friends, your attitude and outlook. Your family is no longer constantly impacting you. You can try things out and drop them, or run with them. You can join organizations, hold fundraisers, pull good-natured pranks, work for the university, develop your own courses for self-study, study abroad, skip classes for a week, drink every night, publish papers, and generally push boundaries that you would not be able to in the real world without significant amounts of time and money (which, arguably, you have paid with tuition). Most students will start out in dorms, which are essentially like home except Mom won't do your laundry, and then progress to independent housing - the whole experience of college, if you take advantage of it, is to effectively transition you into being a well-rounded, educated, concerned, aware and connected adult. And there is a LOT to be said for that.

    If you can also manage to make college into a career starter, then you've killed two birds with one stone.

    All of this said, I think high schoolers ought to be encouraged to take 2 years off and work and travel before entering college. I think most people don't really understand what an incredible thing college is - I certainly didn't - until it's almost over, or long over. If more students entered with that awareness, instead of just seeing college as another required step in life, they would be able to get more out of it, and perhaps would stray less. And no, college is probably not for everyone. But many people might be better citizens of the world for it.

  6. #46
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Your impression of college's worth seems way to oriented toward vocational training. That orientation is actually part of why it's become so expensive and degrees have become so much less valuable.

    There's really no need to call it into question anyhow, because the rising costs of college are quite avoidable. It's a bubble.
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  7. #47
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Your impression of college's worth seems way to oriented toward vocational training. That orientation is actually part of why it's become so expensive and degrees have become so much less valuable.

    There's really no need to call it into question anyhow, because the rising costs of college are quite avoidable. It's a bubble.
    I agree it's both avoidable and a bubble of sorts. There's clearly an upper limit to what people can pay. College still appears to be a good return on investment, but it used to be a great return on investment.

    I also wonder about confounding factors when trying to estimate the value of college. Is the greater degree of earning because of the experience of going to college, having the credential, or having (even before college) the characteristics that make it likely you finish college. Clearly there's a need for focus and being able to delay gratification to make it through college (even more so for graduate school). Those are also characteristic that are helpful both at work and financially. How do we know how difference between income outcomes are the effect of college vs just showing a kind of self-selection?

    (And I say all the above as someone who really enjoyed college, found it a positive experience and who believes in the value of education in general. I am appalled at the current cost of college and level of debt many people have to incur to graduate.)

  8. #48
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    College is an enjoyable bubble for those that can afford it, or get into programs that allow them to get into it.

    Enjoy it while it lasts.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
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  9. #49
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    Some college is useful.


    Some college is not.

  10. #50
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    It's up to you whether or not you make the college experience worth it. You can learn as much about yourself or knowledge wise based upon what you want.

    I spent most of my undergraduate career figuring out what I wanted to do with my life. The general education portion solidified my belief in what I wanted to pursue. I hated the first few years of college because of the GEs and learning about things I didn't want/care to know but when I got to the Upper Divisions I certainly learned a lot. I became focused in my schooling and in my passions outside of the education field. I learned diligence and working hard to achieve understanding of my field but also found another way to approach and understand the external environment outside of school.

    I value school and intend on being in school for quite a while. I do think it's quite costly and I feel horrible for people who have to work full time in order to pay the bills and school.

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