User Tag List

First 23456 Last

Results 31 to 40 of 69

  1. #31
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Socionics
    ENTj
    Posts
    5,908

    Default

    Eh, dunno, it's just another place where you can learn stuff. I don't understand how it can be materially "useless" - perhaps "not worth the price" would be a better qualifier.

    Besides, I am firm believer that all learning is done by oneself.
    That's definitely not true for me. Unless you mean: you interface with reality using your own brain. Then, of course, any kind of learning is done by oneself.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  2. #32
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Socionics
    ENTj
    Posts
    5,908

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    Join the military, get 3 years of schooling completely paid for. Worked well for me.
    Not everyone is cut out for the military life and duties IMHO, and if we try to make it as if everyone is, what we get is a shitty military as a whole.

    Let's not be excessively practical with our life. Trying to have zero debt and savings is definitely a whorty goal. Making your life hell in the process, not really.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  3. #33
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    STP
    Posts
    10,499

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
    On a different note;
    If you're in favor of college, please explain what you think the college experience has to offer (note; said benefits should be UNIQUE to the college experience.)
    What did you, personally, gain from College that you could NOT have gained elsewhere.
    Internship
    Im out, its been fun

  4. #34
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    MBTI
    ISTx
    Posts
    10,552

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Not everyone is cut out for the military life and duties IMHO, and if we try to make it as if everyone is, what we get is a shitty military as a whole.

    Let's not be excessively practical with our life. Trying to have zero debt and savings is definitely a whorty goal. Making your life hell in the process, not really.
    Definitely. Wasn't suggesting everyone or even most people should consider my advice. It's just an option that is there, for those that may be keen on the idea.

  5. #35
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    4,226

    Default

    I have not found my college degree to be worthless. It did provide a great deal of technical knowledge required for my first job, but more importantly it allowed me to gain access to the types of jobs I would not have had access to without a degree. Once there, with hard work and luck, I have moved into an entirely different area, unrelated to my degree. However compared to my brother and sister-both high school dropouts, I make almost 2X to 5X thier salaries. They are just as smart and hard working as me, but without a degree, they are limited.

    If you CHOOSE to go to an expensive school in the US, then yes, you can rack up a lot of debt. However it is very easy to take a substantial amount of coursework at inexpensive community colleges and then attend a more reasonably priced public university and recieve a pragmatic degree. You may leave with some amount of loan debt, but it ends up being an investment. Having said that I know people with upwards of 100K in loan debt, some law or med school, but some just not very aware.

  6. #36
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    6,364

    Default

    To suggest that college is worthless for the reasons stated in the OP is to blame the symptom and not the disease. If anything, I'd suggest that college is worthless because of the heinous commodification it has undergone in the recent past which devalues its entire purpose.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  7. #37
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEI Ni
    Posts
    7,661

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    This is where I disagree or am not sure I understand your point. A lot of people who do quite well in high school get little to no aid at all. I can think of one particular person who was valedictorian of her high school, got a 33 on the ACT and got exactly zero grants or scholarships.
    How much money did her family make? You have to genuinely need help. My family could not afford to help me with tuition at all. They look at your financial need & if you're a good thing to invest in (proven to be a good student). It can also be a matter of the school you go to & whether you can live at home (I did). You usually get more help when you choose one within your state (yes, I know states can vary with their aid). That's why I said choose a college you can afford.

    If your parents have no money and you are exceptional enough, you might get grants or scholarships.
    That's pretty much what I'm saying. If your parents have money, they you don't really need outside help. If your parents don't want to help you, then you can try applying for financial aid as an independent. You have to look for scholarships also. You have to write essays and make an effort. If you can't do this & no college is affordable, then maybe college is not the wisest choice.

    If your parents have no money and you are exceptional enough, you might get grants or scholarships. Otherwise, unless you get lucky, you are sort of screwed. Hell - I graduated 3rd in my high school and went to a state school. I got no grants, no scholarships, no anything. My dad had no savings whatsoever and so he did what he could given his salary - which was high enough that I got nothing but not high enough that he could pay for my school. I did work full time every summer and 16 - 20 hours a week through all of my years in college to at least to minimize the amount of debt that I'd have. I mopped floors, washed dishes, scraped tape off the floor in a warehouse, repackaged tires/inner tubes, worked in a call center for airline reservations and did all sorts of equally thrilling jobs. Even with that, I ended up with debt equivalent to about a years worth of room and board and tuition. There was a night guard job at a freshman girls dormitory that was pretty fun though... I did like working hard the whole time but was envious of those who could devote all of their energies to enjoying their college experience without real responsibilities.
    This is a problem I'd like to see revised, but I still don't see it as that difficult to get enough aid to cover most of your tuition. I don't think I am a rarity in that regard.

    The idea is not to come out with exorbitant debt that can't be paid off relatively easily/quickly. I don't know what the year's worth was for you, but that seems somewhat reasonable based on most tuition costs.

    I too worked all through college, mainly to pay for gas as I had to commute. I can't say it was a bad thing. It was a good transition from being a teenager to being an adult.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
    One can be a bookish intellectual and not get anything out of college; I'm highly intellectual and I enjoy reading and learning (I'm currently learning Accounting and am planning on CLEPing it and most of a business Minor) I had a scholarship that covered my full tuition, and I never lost it. It was housing and everything else that cost me an arm and a leg.

    Also? Not everyone belongs in college. Humorously stated here.
    http://youtu.be/57vCBMqnC1Y
    So who does belong in college? Intellectuals don't...poor people don't....higher education is just for rich people?

    I think you're nitpicking terms here.... you may be bookish, but you clearly don't enjoy or thrive in the kind of learning environments in college. Or maybe, you picked the wrong college or major. It sounds like you picked something to enable you to get a career anyway.

    [quote]There is not emphasis put on learning or developing your mind in college. Simply on getting through. I put a lot of effort into my classes, however what I found was mediocrity. Teachers that didn't want to be teaching, students that just wanted a passing grade. I had a few classes that I enjoyed because of the thought and debate they sparked. The vast majority did not. My philosophy class (or more accurately, the professor) was a nightmare. If you didn't spout back that Existentialism was the gospel truth and that Nietzsche and Kirkegaard were intellectual gods among men you wouldn't get higher than a B- for "not understanding the concepts taught" - I understood the concepts taught perfectly well. I just have a different philosophy and personal convictions than that teacher. I don't enjoy knowing I paid for an attempted brainwashing, or that I wound up with a B on my transcript for refusing to kowtow to a bully with a teachers' podium.

    The few classes that I did get "growth" from were not enough to justify the amount charged. I can acquire that same fulfilling growth and discussion at a good book club. This is from someone who both does well and takes academia seriously.[quote]

    That's your individual, personal experience though. Not everyone experiences that & it's not necessarily the rule. For some, there is emphasis put on learning & developing your mind at the school they go to. And it's not like your silly video, although indulging in silly ideas seems like a good thing to do in school more so than "real life". If high school was not such crap in the USA, then people might be able to do that there. HS in the USA amounts to test scores & dry math & English grammar. There's no critical thinking.

    A book club is fragmented, isolated; your college major can result in a compilation of classes which form a whole, complete study in an area.

    I'm not demanding help with tuition; I despise the idea of debt entirely.
    My points are:
    (1) A College degree is not difficult to get anymore and therefore worth less now that "everyone should go to college".
    (2) A degree is unnecessary for the average person and the average job.
    (3) College is expensive and unavoidable if you want a real job.
    (4) that College itself does not provide any wonderful "benefit" - It doesn't teach you discipline, hard work, or to think for yourself and grow as a person.
    If you're not capable of discipline and hard work you'll flunk out. Or at least, you SHOULD flunk out.
    I agree with 2 & 3. I don't think college should be necessary for most jobs, and it's definitely not for everyone. I'm not saying the way things currently work is not flawed.

    However, I still disagree with 4. Some colleges provide an environment for those things. What you do in that environment is up to you. I think you're hung up on seeing this in practical terms, as if that's the only way to evaluate things in life.

    What I got out of college that I probably would not get elsewhere was that environment noted above. This was valuable to me because I wasn't going to spend hours everyday on my own pursuing such things, and I wouldn't have had direct input from older, experienced, educated people in these matters. I also wouldn't do so in an organized manner that allowed me to acquire something of an expertise in a relatively short amount of time. The time period of college is relatively short for all you can learn.

    I also learned a lot socially. I was socially awkward in high school, but the college I went to had more people like me, people I fit in with better. This did a lot for me in building social skills. Maybe some people get that in high school, but when you're somewhat odd, high school is too "general". I found a niche with other art students; they thought like I did.

    I'm sure you can get these things in many places, but it's all combined into ONE experience. That makes it unique.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  8. #38
    Senior Member EvidenceOfRedemption's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Posts
    131

    Default

    College became worthless when it became a means of accreditation rather than education.

  9. #39
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    48

    Lightbulb Yeah

    Quote Originally Posted by EvidenceOfRedemption View Post
    College became worthless when it became a means of accreditation rather than education.
    Someone else upthread said that much of what is necessary for work that is learned
    in college could be learned in on the job training. The problem is that on the job training simply does not happen anymore. You are supposed to know everything at the age of 22, and then you are supposed to work for $9/hr while paying off those student loans. Let's put the blame for this, and three quarters of the world's problems where it belongs: on Corporate America. I am not kidding. Once we get
    back to on the job training as a possibility in at least some fields, than college can actually be about education again.

  10. #40
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    8,263

    Default

    I've dropped out of college a few times, but I still don't want to say it's worthless. Despite my actions. A degree would open a lot of doors, if anything. Maybe some make too much out of just how many doors open, but it's still true. I already self-educate, but it's good to be challenged and have questions posed from someone else too. So it's also useful on that level.

Similar Threads

  1. College is useless?
    By ThaumaturgicTheorist in forum Academics and Careers
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 08-04-2016, 06:50 AM
  2. What is Philosophy?
    By SolitaryWalker in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 51
    Last Post: 01-09-2013, 09:10 PM
  3. Is college really a place for learning?
    By blanclait in forum Academics and Careers
    Replies: 77
    Last Post: 11-19-2009, 12:39 AM
  4. Is TV Almost Worthless?
    By Shaula in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: 04-26-2009, 02:48 PM
  5. Timing is everything?
    By Littlelostnf in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 59
    Last Post: 12-04-2007, 03:01 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO