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  1. #11
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Agree.... The purpose of college is (or was) higher education, not merely job skills. In the US, primary & secondary education is rather crappy, so a college education can really be significant in rounding out your education. Is it essential? No. Is it the only way to be educated? No. Like anything, a lot of how valuable it is depends on what you put into it & do with it. Some people learn really well in a formal setting, and others don't, so that can make a difference also. I'm a bookish person & found college a really enjoyable, mentally-stimulating part of my life, and that in itself makes it valuable to me.
    I agree with all of these things and for you, can well imagine it was a wonderful experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I personally didn't have any debt from college. I did not pay one cent of my own money to go to college. I chose a school & area of study that my grants & scholarships would easily cover. I also think if you're not a good enough HS student to acquire grants & scholarships & can't afford college on your own without accumulating substantial debt, then maybe it's not a good choice for you. If you're not one who does well academically or takes school seriously, then college is probably not your cup of tea anyway.
    This is where I disagree or am not sure I understand your point. A lot of people who do quite well in high school get little to no aid at all. I can think of one particular person who was valedictorian of her high school, got a 33 on the ACT and got exactly zero grants or scholarships.

    If your parents have no money and you are exceptional enough, you might get grants or scholarships. Otherwise, unless you get lucky, you are sort of screwed. Hell - I graduated 3rd in my high school and went to a state school. I got no grants, no scholarships, no anything. My dad had no savings whatsoever and so he did what he could given his salary - which was high enough that I got nothing but not high enough that he could pay for my school. I did work full time every summer and 16 - 20 hours a week through all of my years in college to at least to minimize the amount of debt that I'd have. I mopped floors, washed dishes, scraped tape off the floor in a warehouse, repackaged tires/inner tubes, worked in a call center for airline reservations and did all sorts of equally thrilling jobs. Even with that, I ended up with debt equivalent to about a years worth of room and board and tuition. There was a night guard job at a freshman girls dormitory that was pretty fun though... I did like working hard the whole time but was envious of those who could devote all of their energies to enjoying their college experience without real responsibilities.

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  2. #12
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. In my personal experience, college was very useful to me and my degree was irrelevant in getting and keeping my job. It helped develop the way I think about things and my overall life views. Furthermore, had I not taken 4 years out of my life to go to college when I did, it would have taken far far longer to get the benefits that I received there. In fact, I probably never would learned on my own most of the things that I learned there.

    If someone wastes their college experience in beer swilling greek life, that's their own fault, not the college's. While I do think travel is very capable of broadening your horizons, most people's jobs do not. If anything, they're surrounded by like minded people doing the same menial bull shit every day.

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  3. #13
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I think liberal arts college degrees have a lot of value. I shutter to think of a world in which no one was getting them or the people that wanted them received no support. The problem isn't the value of the degree, it's that the mainstream culture has totally forgotten what the value of the degree is. It's getting to a point where you get a BA in Anthropology so you can manage a McDonald's.

    Indeed, the degree itself has virtually nothing to do with the debt issue. The problem is really that colleges/universities are increasingly expected to provide everything under the sun. They are in an arms race to provide perks in the hopes that they will win the competition which is itself usually not a competition for students. But they need to get the money for that crap, so they get it from students who don't know what else to do and don't fully understand that they aren't really getting any money.

    Of course, this is a bubble, because even though students hypothetically owe that money back, they only pay it back very slowly if they can pay it all back to begin with, so the whole thing is growing bigger and bigger on money that isn't even there.

    Getting out of the bubble in the first place will be painful, but in the longterm, fixing this just involves somehow putting an end to the escalating opulence of colleges. The problem isn't the values of the degrees, the problem is everything but the degrees.

    Take note of Ushername's point, because I think it is good to remember that college isn't the same mire everywhere and wasn't always here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    Also, no one places debt on college students. College students assume debt with their own financial decisions.
    Sure, but the alternative is a huge drop in college enrollments because it's incredibly hard to pay out of your pocket into college. I'm temporarily out of college in spite of having + 25k job and taking all the aid I can get. I'd say the only choice I can blame on myself is that I went for UPitt instead of something like Millersville, but UPitt is partially state funded and not exactly pricey by university standards.
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  4. #14
    Senior Member Zangetshumody's Avatar
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    I didn't read the original post in this thread, but I imagine it amounts to pointing out that college/uni is more expensive. Of course it should be more expensive, because ever since the 70's, energy has been getting more expensive, and so the cost of everything has been rising. However most things have been offset by them becoming more efficient, and so the cost has been bearable;- universities don't do efficiency very well though. People should be doing uni at home through ventrilo or teamspeak, not sitting in expensive auditoriums/lecture halls, in fact the potency for extended tutorial meetings through teamspeak/videochat means there could be more quality time interaction at a much reduced cost. This would be good for the liberal arts at least, which require the most intensive investment to get anything other than mediocre results; of course the sciences do require actual places for practical tutorials, but they cans afford it cause they get stable jobnessess all over the worlds.

    In short, people should not be demanding help with their tuition, they should be demanding and seeking cheaper tuition options which should become the new benchmark which have different qualities not adding up to a lower grade product. One could make an internet university with no multiple choice questions, good lecturers who you interact with, extended tutorial and student liasons to form study groups of people who compliment each others styles of thinking and learning; its not unimaginable.

    So stop living in the past, or don't expect to pay old world prices.
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  5. #15
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Join the military, get 3 years of schooling completely paid for. Worked well for me.

  6. #16
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    Join the military, get 3 years of schooling completely paid for. Worked well for me.
    +1

    You can even join after college, get repaid, and then get paid more at work than half of the people that graduated college with you.
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  7. #17
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    It isn't completely worthless. It really depends on how you use your time while you are in college. There are also many ways a person can come about college. Besides that, one of the easiest ways to go far is through college. You can even meet people/companies that can open a lot of doors for you. Not to say that you can't do that in other ways, but it is just easier.

    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    Join the military, get 3 years of schooling completely paid for. Worked well for me.
    Depends, pretty much tied down whether you do active duty or not. Not to mention whether they will let you into the field you want to get into or not.

  8. #18
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rail Tracer View Post
    Depends, pretty much tied down whether you do active duty or not. Not to mention whether they will let you into the field you want to get into or not.
    There are obstacles that come with military life sure, but that aside, you still get a great education benefit out of it. I worked Supply, which was completely and thoroughly outside my realm of personal interest. But, I have 4 years active duty service with an honorable discharge from the Marine Corps, and 3 years of paid tuition (to any public university)+book stipend+monthly housing allowance to show for it (and therefore, no regrets ).

  9. #19
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    I should mention, while active duty, you get tuition assistance (classes paid for) and that doesn't tap into the GI Bill benefit at all. So theoretically, one could knock out an associates while enlisted, or a bachelors if you're enlisting with prior college and then use your GI Bill to get a masters...

    But I wouldn't ever encourage someone to make such a big commitment to joining the military solely for an education benefit. If you don't already feel compelled to join, then you shouldn't.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    +1

    You can even join after college, get repaid, and then get paid more at work than half of the people that graduated college with you.
    I also heard that as long as you were in the military after 9/11, you get to use the GI bill even if you "retire" from the military. My dad retired a few years back and he has a Masters but is going back to school using the GI bill to get a certification.

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