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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Of course not.

    First off, this is a study, it is not a scientific experiment. And it says it is merely a study, it does not claim the status of a scientific experiment.

    But worse, this study does not test the Theory of Psychology because Psychology has no Theory to test.

    For instance, if it were the science of Astronomy we would have a scientific experiment to test the Theory of Relativity.
    Are you saying that psychology is not a science because there is not significant progress towards a GUT of psychology? I'm not sure I really even know what a GUT of psychology would look like.

    In terms of theories... to name a few off the top of my head...

    Developmental
    Piaget's theory of cognitive development
    Erikson's stages of psychosocial development

    Social
    Triangular theory of love

    Cognitive
    Schemata theory
    Theory of scaffolding

    and so on...

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Are you saying that psychology is not a science because there is not significant progress towards a GUT of psychology? I'm not sure I really even know what a GUT of psychology would look like.

    In terms of theories... to name a few off the top of my head...

    Developmental
    Piaget's theory of cognitive development
    Erikson's stages of psychosocial development

    Social
    Triangular theory of love

    Cognitive
    Schemata theory
    Theory of scaffolding

    and so on...
    Theory in scientific terms is an established fact, while theory in layman's terms is something undecided.

    Also scientific theories are falsifiable. And we falsify scientific theories with scientific experiments.

    So none of the Psychological theories you mention qualify as a scientific Theory.

    Quite frankly, you are talking about Theory like a layperson, not like a scientist.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Theory in scientific terms is an established fact, while theory in layman's terms is something undecided.

    Also scientific theories are falsifiable. And we falsify scientific theories with scientific experiments.

    So none of the Psychological theories you mention qualify as a scientific Theory.

    Quite frankly, you are talking about Theory like a layperson, not like a scientist.
    Erg, Mole, you have no idea what you're talking about. I have a degree in this. I'm not the layperson here.

    Continue believing whatever you want about psychology. The rest of the scientists who study it will continue to attempt to educate people like you.

  4. #44
    Riva
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Erg, Mole, you have no idea what you're talking about. I have a degree in this. I'm not the layperson here.Continue believing whatever you want about psychology. The rest of the scientists who study it will continue to attempt to educate people like you.
    Offtopic question - I've never consulted one so i'm rather curious to know what the basis for therapy is? (The belief of it.) As an example if one believes in god with all faith, one simply should understand that the hardships one faces have a reason behind it and etc. Does psychology have a basis like the above?

  5. #45
    girl with a pretty smile Honor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    Offtopic question - I've never consulted one so i'm rather curious to know what the basis for therapy is? (The belief of it.) As an example if one believes in god with all faith, one simply should understand that the hardships one faces have a reason behind it and etc. Does psychology have a basis like the above?
    I wouldn't equate therapy with psychology. Academic psychology is really different from clinical psychology And I'll divert to skylights because I didn't major in psychology but my understanding of psychotherapy is that it doesn't operate on a belief-centric basis but that there are different types of therapy that have been evaluated on patients with different emotional problems...the use of the type of therapy, whether narrative therapy, cognitive-behavioral therapy, etc helps clients emotionally and intellectually resolve those problems.
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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    Offtopic question - I've never consulted one so i'm rather curious to know what the basis for therapy is? (The belief of it.) As an example if one believes in god with all faith, one simply should understand that the hardships one faces have a reason behind it and etc. Does psychology have a basis like the above?
    There are many different types of psychotherapy just as there are many religions and many sects of those religions.

    And what is striking is that the many different types of psychotherapy have no common basis. In other words, there is no Theory of Psychology as there are Theories for Chemistry, Physics, Biology and Astronomy.

    So psychotherapy and religion have a lot in common. And indeed in an irreligious age so many turn to psychotherapy as a substitute for religion.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    There are many different types of psychotherapy just as there are many religions and many sects of those religions.

    And what is striking is that the many different types of psychotherapy have no common basis. In other words, there is no Theory of Psychology as there are Theories for Chemistry, Physics, Biology and Astronomy.

    So psychotherapy and religion have a lot in common. And indeed in an irreligious age so many turn to psychotherapy as a substitute for religion.
    Religion shares with fairy tales and psychotherapy one trait: it addresses the inner issues of a person and that is certainly in and of itself a highly valuable trait, as the world is a scary and painful place to be in.

    Just like with a physical wound, it pays to help heal an emotional one, and minimise chronic disease and scar tissue. However, just as with emotional treatment, the world has come a long way from leeches, superstition and the crude use of herbs. Some of those things - like herbology - very much had and even still have their merit. And some of them were very much bogus, or overused as a treatment of too many ailments that didnt benefit from them - like leeches. Even today, we still have things we use in medicine - medicine backed up by science, btw - that are going to prove to be ludicrous methods of treatment in the future.

    The same is true for psychotherapy and religion. Religion still *can* contribute to a person's emotional welfare, for sure. But psychotherapy is most definitely based in science and an improvement or rather more focused approach to treating the emotional scars we all carry. And yet it is still just as fallible as the people who created it and the scientific yardstick they use these days, and will continue to grow as our knowledge of our own inner landscape grows.

    Don't make Science your God, Mole. Its application is most certainly valuable to our kind but is still judged and applied by humans - and we're most definitely fallible. Humility in this regard is key, as is understanding and compassion for what humans used in earlier days, and recognition of the methods that stem from that period and do have merit - even if they are perhaps less effective than the scientific ones we use nowadays, including psychotherapy.
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honor View Post
    I wouldn't equate therapy with psychology. Academic psychology is really different from clinical psychology And I'll divert to skylights because I didn't major in psychology but my understanding of psychotherapy is that it doesn't operate on a belief-centric basis but that there are different types of therapy that have been evaluated on patients with different emotional problems...the use of the type of therapy, whether narrative therapy, cognitive-behavioral therapy, etc helps clients emotionally and intellectually resolve those problems.
    In my program there is cognitive and clinical psychology, both with academic angles. The clinical students have to spend time (a year, I think) working with actual patients under the supervision of a PhD. The cognitive students do actual research and modeling of the brain.

    With regards to the different types of therapy, on average they are all equally as good as talking openly with a close friend, on average. If one knows they have a very specific problem, they might seek out a therapist that specializes on that problem, otherwise, it's going to be just as good as talking to a friend, basically.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    Offtopic question - I've never consulted one so i'm rather curious to know what the basis for therapy is? (The belief of it.)
    Well, the basis of modern psychotherapy is generally held to be Freud, who took up the cases of people who presented with neurological problems which appeared to have no biochemical origin. His theory (COUGH COUGH Mole) was that the causes of the diseases must originate within the mind, in particular from unconscious dysfunction originating from traumatic past experience. Following that, Freud attempted to use various methods to root out whatever harmful causes were being suppressed in the unconscious, and that's essentially the foundation of talk therapy.

    In terms of belief, it's a fair scientific hypothesis that the workings of the mind can have an impact on the body, but it's not really testable, since we have no real way of empirically measuring our intangible thoughts. This is the place where we have to leave scientific methods because they just aren't an applicable tool here. Like @mingularity pointed out, some counseling is basically tantamount to having an open discussion with someone you trust. The upside to doing it with a professional counselor is that you don't risk harming an important interpersonal relationship with anything you share; the counselor is held to professional standards of behavior and confidentiality; and the counselor has a wide range of knowledge of many different strategies for addressing particular problems. Certain forms of counseling - for example, DBT - have been shown via scientific testing to be significantly more successful treating certain conditions such as Borderline PD (which it was created to treat) and mood disorders.

    As an example if one believes in god with all faith, one simply should understand that the hardships one faces have a reason behind it and etc. Does psychology have a basis like the above?
    Well, let's consider that "therapy" is simply any modality to treat a disease (literally, "lack of ease"). Physical therapy, for instance, may have you stretch in certain ways if you get a hip transplant, to help recover from the injury and surgery and to regain range of motion. All of the stretches you do are assigned to you because it is assumed that they will address the underlying cause of impediment. That assumption may or may not be right, of course.

    Similarly, anything done in psychotherapy is done with the assumption that it will address the underlying cause of disease. However, since psychotherapy mostly deals with the intangible mind, biochemistry is generally not the starting place for most therapeutic strategies. Some therapeutic perspectives rest on the assumption that in general, the human as an organism, its mind included, tends to move towards health if unimpeded, and the therapist plays the role of facilitator in getting the person "back on track" towards healthy growth, assisting them in their personal mental work to address whatever obstacles are preventing health (this may be closely related to biochemical homeostasis).

  10. #50
    girl with a pretty smile Honor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mingularity View Post
    In my program there is cognitive and clinical psychology, both with academic angles. The clinical students have to spend time (a year, I think) working with actual patients under the supervision of a PhD. The cognitive students do actual research and modeling of the brain.

    With regards to the different types of therapy, on average they are all equally as good as talking openly with a close friend, on average. If one knows they have a very specific problem, they might seek out a therapist that specializes on that problem, otherwise, it's going to be just as good as talking to a friend, basically.
    I didn't mean to suggest clinical psychology is not an academic discipline. What I meant to say (although I now realize my post was really unclear) was that cognitive/developmental/social psychology generally are more research oriented than patient oriented. Although there are clinical psychology PhD programs out there that do emphasize research.
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