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View Poll Results: Does America saddle its educators with too much responsibility for American youth?

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  • Yes

    15 88.24%
  • No

    0 0%
  • Undecided

    1 5.88%
  • Other

    1 5.88%
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  1. #11
    Senior Member FunnyDigestion's Avatar
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    I definitely think if they're going to have to be policemen, as well as babysitters & actual teachers, they should at least be getting paid a bit more than 25 or 30 or however many thousand dollars a year.
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  2. #12
    Ginkgo
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    The more time elapses, you might think the newest generations are the responsibility of the older simply because of the ever increasing line of older people involved. On the contrary,the more time elapses, the more the newest generations will be responsible to salvage what they can from that pool of fuck-ups and bright ideas given to us by the older generations. Anything else is just spoon feeding.

    Teachers serve a similary function as doctors did in your earlier post, @iwakar. They're there to do their jobs and respect the beliefs of their students. Granted, I don't really give a shit what a college prof. does. if he wants to chew out some kid for his/her beliefs in full view of everyone else, he should contend with the student and not have to worry about uppidy parents. High School doesn't prepare you enough for that sort of experience unless the student chose to take an elective that might help them. I like the idea that we all test our mettle after making our own choices and too much dependency on public school systems doesn't help us grow. Nevermind the fact that public schools are mostly just daycares.

  3. #13
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Yes, we do. Parents have largely abdicated responsibility for raising their kids, and when they are involved, they want to blame the teacher for whatever their kid's doing wrong. It's easier to blame someone else. Teachers have gone from being some of the most respected members of society to the least. They've become a scapegoat for bureaucrats, administrators, government officials and politicians, too. It's largely a pass-the-buck system. Everyone sees there's something wrong with our educational system, and more and more, with our society at large. Instead of seeing the problem in its vast complexity, these groups need to put someone's head on the chopping block. So who gets the blame? Teachers, and teachers' unions. Teachers are now painted as slackers who covet tenure and a short year so they can rest on their backsides. It's much easier for a politician to blame a teacher and look like he or she is "holding people accountable" than it is to spend some time in a classroom and properly assess the situation. That takes time, effort and thoughtfulness. We don't have time for that in today's society. So blaming teachers and putting in "accountability measures" have become the band-aid fix that lulls parents/voters into a false sense of security.

    Here in Dallas, teachers have just been informed that their workday will be lengthened by forty-five minutes with no additional pay. Why? Because the school district officials decided they weren't getting a full eight hours a day out of teachers. So we have to hold these slackers accountable, right? Conveniently, no one mentions the hours teachers spend at home planning for the next days/weeks, grading stacks and stacks and stacks of papers, sponsoring after-school activities, attending faculty meetings, and countless other activities that come with the job. Do you think anyone would accept teachers leaving their jobs at the school? Is this guy who's touting "getting the full 8 hours he's paying for" going to give anyone overtime for the other mandatory job-related things he expects of these employees?

    Frankly, no one understands what it's like to be a teacher until one has been a teacher. And sadly, many who have been in the classroom forget when they become administrators. I don't know how to fix the problem, but treating teachers with more respect and expecting them to be teachers instead of fairy godmothers would be a good start. It really does take a freaking village, and most of the rest of the village seems to have abandoned their posts.
    Something Witty

  4. #14
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    It really does take a freaking village, and most of the rest of the village seems to have abandoned their posts.
    Did you steal this or are you that fantastic a writer?
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    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
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  5. #15
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    Did you steal this or are you that fantastic a writer?
    Hee, I just made it up! Thanks! :-D
    Something Witty

  6. #16
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    Yes, we do. Parents have largely abdicated responsibility for raising their kids, and when they are involved, they want to blame the teacher for whatever their kid's doing wrong. It's easier to blame someone else. Teachers have gone from being some of the most respected members of society to the least. They've become a scapegoat for bureaucrats, administrators, government officials and politicians, too. It's largely a pass-the-buck system. Everyone sees there's something wrong with our educational system, and more and more, with our society at large. Instead of seeing the problem in its vast complexity, these groups need to put someone's head on the chopping block. So who gets the blame? Teachers, and teachers' unions. Teachers are now painted as slackers who covet tenure and a short year so they can rest on their backsides. It's much easier for a politician to blame a teacher and look like he or she is "holding people accountable" than it is to spend some time in a classroom and properly assess the situation. That takes time, effort and thoughtfulness. We don't have time for that in today's society. So blaming teachers and putting in "accountability measures" have become the band-aid fix that lulls parents/voters into a false sense of security.

    Here in Dallas, teachers have just been informed that their workday will be lengthened by forty-five minutes with no additional pay. Why? Because the school district officials decided they weren't getting a full eight hours a day out of teachers. So we have to hold these slackers accountable, right? Conveniently, no one mentions the hours teachers spend at home planning for the next days/weeks, grading stacks and stacks and stacks of papers, sponsoring after-school activities, attending faculty meetings, and countless other activities that come with the job. Do you think anyone would accept teachers leaving their jobs at the school? Is this guy who's touting "getting the full 8 hours he's paying for" going to give anyone overtime for the other mandatory job-related things he expects of these employees?

    Frankly, no one understands what it's like to be a teacher until one has been a teacher. And sadly, many who have been in the classroom forget when they become administrators. I don't know how to fix the problem, but treating teachers with more respect and expecting them to be teachers instead of fairy godmothers would be a good start. It really does take a freaking village, and most of the rest of the village seems to have abandoned their posts.
    +100000000

    Especially the part about teacher's unions being unfairly blamed and scapegoated for the ills of the entire educational system. Look at this shit, for example.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  7. #17
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    Frankly, no one understands what it's like to be a teacher until one has been a teacher. And sadly, many who have been in the classroom forget when they become administrators. I don't know how to fix the problem, but treating teachers with more respect and expecting them to be teachers instead of fairy godmothers would be a good start. It really does take a freaking village, and most of the rest of the village seems to have abandoned their posts.
    Unless you are a student who is sympathetic of those teachers... because your college and education is getting shitted on by those bureaucrats that rather increase their own self-pay instead of adding (measly) $1,300 to fund a part of the college. Hell, they are telling all the colleges to fend for themselves while they make 10-20 times more than a teacher's average pay. It is no wonder many professors and teachers are getting batty with lowered salary and defunding on materials they use to teach.... it isn't a surprise that students are going ape-shit about the (Quarterly/Semester/Yearly) tuition increases and cuts too while those bureaucrat get bonuses for their less-than-stellar work.

    I mean, what do they take us for? Our fees should not be used to pay for their damn bonuses. You know what? THEY should be the ones working for their damn bonuses.

    And when we protest, they chicken out.....

  8. #18
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rail Tracer View Post
    Even then, so much is put onto the teachers that not all of them can properly teach while taking up the responsibility of what should be the parents. Likewise, the policies for what teachers can or cannot do is so strict that even if teachers were willing to do something.... they can't.... in fear of being sued.
    These are good points, and a significant part of the problem. Even ~40 years ago when my parents started their teaching careers, teachers were burdened with significant non-teaching duties, much of it administrative in nature with no value added in the classroom. Add to that today the ever-present threat of lawsuits, and the needs of the students, not to mention plain old common sense, take a back seat to defensive teaching tactics. Administrators are afraid to do anything not in lockstep with state standards, leaving little room for creativity and individuality unless a teacher is both daring and well-established.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    Yes, we do. Parents have largely abdicated responsibility for raising their kids, and when they are involved, they want to blame the teacher for whatever their kid's doing wrong. It's easier to blame someone else. Teachers have gone from being some of the most respected members of society to the least. They've become a scapegoat for bureaucrats, administrators, government officials and politicians, too. It's largely a pass-the-buck system.

    <etc.>
    Valid points here as well, many of which echo the complaints of schoolteachers like my parents and several of my cousins.

    Some parents, though, do take responsibility for their kids, and take an interest in their education. These parents want their child to actually understand how to solve a math problem, even when the teacher marks it wrong because it wasn't done "her way". They want phys ed to involve playing sports and not just being tested on rules. They want the choir to be limited to people who really want to sing, and not used as a study hall. They want social studies classes to ask why and not just who, what, and when. They want to know whether their child's poor grade indicates difficulty with the subject, or a habit of turning in homework late. They want treatment of their child to be based on his/her behavior, just as assigned grades are based on his/her work. They want honest answers from teachers and administrators when questions of rules or policies come up. They want the PTO/PTA to engage with what the students are learning, and not just hold fundraisers.

    The parents I know who are like this, though, don't get much of what they are asking for. They often don't even get the "courtesy" of a form letter in reply. Some of the most involved parents I know have chosen to homeschool, which in a way weakens the public education system even more.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  9. #19
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    When did this disrespect for teachers become prevelant? It seems like a hellava stressful job these days. The cooperate mentality is pretty pervasive, unfortuantely you can't treat kid's learning like a commodity.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
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  10. #20
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Disrespect of teachers reflects a disrespect of learning, of academic achievement. In parallel with this we have also had a hollowing out of educational content, such that giving students a strong foundation in the basics has been displaced by catering to standards and regulations, with some superficial, glitzy "edutainment" thrown in to hold the students' attention. So, teachers in many schools are now in the unenviable position of delivering an inferior product that people don't value anyway.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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