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  1. #21
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    Me, too--every word of this. I don't even have a Facebook account, and I don't want one. To think that in the future one's job would depend on one's "social media presence" is horrifying. Furthermore, I don't even want everyone I know following me on Twitter. I don't want my employer following me. But meh, kelric covered everything and said it better, so I'll just say, ITA.
    Me three. I refuse to join the social media revolution. Increasingly, that means I am a non-person. There will probably come a time when I will be forced to sign a contract/publish my personal data to a private corporation that I despise (like Facebook) in order to be able to participate in public life.
    That is disturbing.
    It's even more disturbing that so few people are disturbed by it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  2. #22
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Me three. I refuse to join the social media revolution. Increasingly, that means I am a non-person. There will probably come a time when I will be forced to sign a contract/publish my personal data to a private corporation that I despise (like Facebook) in order to be able to participate in public life.
    That is disturbing.
    It's even more disturbing that so few people are disturbed by it.
    Very much agreed. I resent very much that Facebook and the like are becoming requirements, rather than tools. Facebook and Google are invading every aspect of our online lives, which in turn will invade our public ones. I wish I believed I was overreacting.
    Something Witty

  3. #23
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    That was only for a very particular sector dealing with online media. It makes sense to ask for "web presence" for a jonlb that either requires it or aims to increase it for clients.

    Otherwise, its pointless.

    For me the distinction is, does the job think my online persona represents me as a person or do they just ant to see how well that Ive "branded" myself?

    I still have a negative knee jerk reaction to people who are heavily and superficially self promoting online (and over the age of 16 and has no product to push) but perhaps Im just old school and prefer doing the internet incognito.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

  4. #24
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    I refuse to join the social media revolution. Increasingly, that means I am a non-person. There will probably come a time when I will be forced to sign a contract/publish my personal data to a private corporation that I despise (like Facebook) in order to be able to participate in public life.
    O my prophetic soul...
    Meet the New Boss: Big Data

    The data say that person lives near the job, has reliable transportation and uses one or more social networks, but not more than four. He or she tends not to be overly inquisitive or empathetic, but is creative.
    Creative people aren't inquisitive??

    Do not Like.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  5. #25
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    Oh shit, using the Big Five to screen applicants is bad news. On the Big Five alone, I'd completely flunk an application for a tech company despite my resume and skillset.

    It's not intended to be used for down-in-the-weeds purposes such as this one--it's intended for more abstract subjects, such as finding correlations, developing theories, furthering research, etc.

    I'd like to see a study of whether productivity, profit, or some other metric has increased after one of these bullshit screenings has been instituted--that is, whether using the Big Five in this way actually helps. If it doesn't, then perhaps the media will get ahold of the study, magnify the contents of the study to an insane degree, send the business folks into a reactionary panic, and force them to stop this nonsense and hire people the good ol' fashioned way.
    Kenexa's roughly 40-minute survey, she said, asks questions that the software scores for honesty. "People who are trying to fool the system are going to get tripped up," she said.
    Thank God for a little bit of knowledge of typology. We probably have an edge on most people. Hooray for manipulation!

  6. #26
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    Oh shit, using the Big Five to screen applicants is bad news. On the Big Five alone, I'd completely flunk an application for a tech company despite my resume and skillset.

    It's not intended to be used for down-in-the-weeds purposes such as this one--it's intended for more abstract subjects, such as finding correlations, developing theories, furthering research, etc.
    Big Data != Big Five

    (It's Big Brother's secret sibling)

    But agree with all of that. There is something sinister about screening people based on personality tests. Use it for career/personal development, by all means. But to exclude someone based on their being a specific type? That's just a dangerous new kind of -ism.


    A psychologist involved in creating the algorithm discussed in the article, defended it, and the concerns about legality/potential for indirect discrimination thusly:

    " We've known for years that intelligence is the single best predictor of performance across all job types, but as an industry we can't really use it because intelligence tests tend to discriminate. That's why you see so many personality-style tests.

    There are a lot of specific questions employers cannot ask (personal, disability, some criminal history) as well as protected classes which cannot be arbitrarily discriminated against. Protected classes include ethnicity/race, gender, and age (people over 40). We're constantly checking our assessments to ensure they do not discriminate against women, any ethnicity, or older applicants.

    Things get trickier when you add the notion of job relevance. IF you are using a screening tool that discriminates, it MUST be job relevant. You cannot disproportionately screen out women who can't lift xx lbs over their head from a firefighting job if that's not something a firefighter actually has to do on the job. You CAN disproportionately screen out blind people for the job of fire truck driver because vision is obviously job relevant."

    Thereby implying that intelligence isn't "job relevant".....?

    Let's say the "more than zero but less than five social networks" heuristic becomes a standard to screen candidates at the first stage of the recruitment process ( increasingly outsourced to a handful of CRAs).

    That means people who refrain from using those sites are being discriminated against on the grounds of good sense / ethics. (When it's illegal to discriminate on the basis of a criminal record...) That makes it necessary to open up one's life to public scrutiny in order to secure work.

    Why is it "wrong" to discriminate on the basis of intelligence, but not wrong to discriminate on the basis of personality type or desire for privacy?

    Part of the problem is that technology is much more agile than the legislature, which means lots of unethical loophole spinning.

    Beyond ethics, from a technical standpoint, there is so much that can go wrong with this model. Including, but not limited to:-

    • More often than not, Big Data is "dirty" and unreliable
    • Correlation is not causation
    • Psychologists make mistakes
    • Programmers make mistakes translating psychologists' mistakes into working s/w


    Why do people find it so easy to trust computers when they don't trust human judgment?
    Why don't they understand that not only are computers only as good as the human judgments/data fed into them, but unlike human beings, they do not have the ability to reflect on output and say "that's garbage"?
    Last edited by Salomé; 10-20-2012 at 05:08 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  7. #27
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post

    But agree with all of that. There is something sinister about screening people based on personality tests. Use it for career/personal development, by all means. But to exclude someone based on their being a specific type? That's just a dangerous new kind of -ism.
    Oh fuck; tell me about it. Ive always thought if I were handed a personality test as part of my job interviews or as a screening process I would probably spit in someones face.

    Perhaps im overexaggerating though...afterall last time that nearly got me arrested. But the idea of it is....abhorrent to me.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
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  8. #28
    Unlimited Dancemoves ® AgentF's Avatar
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    finding a job and dating have a lot in common.

    mutual consent is a prerequisite, determining compatibility the challenge (and traditional resumes do very little to aid the latter).

    w/r/t privacy: one software company makes money by "leveraging the digital exhaust that people leave about themselves around the internet."

    so, that's their pitch to employers who pay them to identify candidates (active and passive, mind you. the currently employed who leave particularly fragrant exhaust must deal with legions of oft-incompetent recruiters, who decide you're a passive job seeker for you.)
    I may be kindly, I am ordinarily gentle, but in my line of business I am obliged to will terribly what I will at all.
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  9. #29
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...991814896.html


    At this point in time, I see this as something small companies and internet start-ups can/are doing, but not large corporations. What do you think?
    As a small company, I focus more on the interviews. I've never put any faith in peoples resumés, I know I've never written an honest one myself and don't expect others to do so either. But there isn't a whole lot you can hide in a lengthy interview!
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  10. #30
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    So a resume says nothing about you but your friends lists and holiday pics on facebook does... What a great idea! Let's save everyone the hassle of being literate and instead allow job applications to entail a video audition and text speak on twitter. I do wonder what an office full of attention whores is going to produce though....

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