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  1. #1
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Default Mentoring the future..

    "It is my duty to build up a disciple better than me. Otherwise, the tradition will wear thin with time." - Korehira Watanabe, traditional sword maker.

    Do you consider yourself a mentor? Do you feel like you contribute to this at all, and go beyond the convenience of teaching someone for the benefit of yourself?

    And how important do you consider this in our society? To take someone under your wing and make that dedication to them?
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    Yes, definitely. I figure that guiding other people gives me tons of satisfaction and helps them at the same time--win-win for all of us involved.

    It mostly comes up in the work/teaching context. I think of what I needed when I was in their shoes and aim to provide it for them: I wanted to know the relevance behind what I was doing, and I wanted to feel some ownership of it.. but I also wanted a bit of high-level guidance. So, I continually work to provide all of those things for others.

    And if I get them to become enthusiastic about what they do and buy in to what they're doing, they're just that much more effective--and, to a certain extent, loyal.

    I'm admittedly biased, but I think that we all ought to become sufficient and capable, then at least try to get to a point where we can actually bestow lessons upon other people.

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    Member luismas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    "It is my duty to build up a disciple better than me. Otherwise, the tradition will wear thin with time." - Korehira Watanabe, traditional sword maker.

    Do you consider yourself a mentor? Do you feel like you contribute to this at all, and go beyond the convenience of teaching someone for the benefit of yourself?

    And how important do you consider this in our society? To take someone under your wing and make that dedication to them?

    Personally, I believe that the culture of my philosophy has very much to do with the will of sharing it; in such way, is it not in benefit of my bodily self, strictly, but in benefit of whatever I pass down. One can also mentor by way of literature and other media, but the effect may not be the same. Tradition, by itself, means the passing of something to an other. This is one of the reasons why many people feel the need to have children: tradition. However, the balance between selflessness and selfishness is usually there. These days, people seem to prefer sharing in an impersonal way (the sharing of knowledge on the internet comes to mind), probably due to the nature of modern lifestyles and communities. Mentoring has perhaps taken a very materialistic edge, that is to say, comfort, security, power are usually more valued than past time traditions.

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    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    "It is my duty to build up a disciple better than me. Otherwise, the tradition will wear thin with time." - Korehira Watanabe, traditional sword maker.
    Do you consider yourself a mentor? Do you feel like you contribute to this at all, and go beyond the convenience of teaching someone for the benefit of yourself?
    And how important do you consider this in our society? To take someone under your wing and make that dedication to them?
    perhaps it has to do with being an ENFP, but mentoring has been second nature to me since I was in first grade and making younger children my "apprentices" . I've always gotten along well with younger people and fall int an adviser role quite naturally
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    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    Yes, definitely. I figure that guiding other people gives me tons of satisfaction and helps them at the same time--win-win for all of us involved.

    ...

    I'm admittedly biased, but I think that we all ought to become sufficient and capable, then at least try to get to a point where we can actually bestow lessons upon other people.
    I think this is my conclusion. Once you become completely self-supporting and independent.... There wouldn't be much else for me. Fill my days with tons of hobbies? I have no desire for children of my own, no, but I do desire to pass down lessons.. to make others in the world in the position I am in. To show everyone how I did it so that they can as well.

    Maybe I won't pass down the tradition of christmas dinner or something.. But the tradition of wanting to be in a leadership role of SOME sort is something I desire. I can think of no more noble leadership style than that of teaching and dedicated mentoring. Even when I was a child, I started to help first graders that didn't quite learn to read yet on how I learned how to read.. I was in 5th grade at the time. I did a lot of teaching in small groups in college, and I am sure I'll continue to do so.. I truly enjoyed my job on teaching others on how to paint. And I don't even desire to be a teacher!

    But this doesn't seem to be the sentiment anymore.. The whole world is "dog eat dog", "Get a job you bum", "figure it out", out-for-themselves type. My sister, were I not there, wouldn't have had any mentor at all. People just want to stay in their own lane, and settle in and forget that there's more work to be done out there.. Bigger things than just themselves. Even if you don't like kids.. mentoring comes in all shapes and sizes.

    Quote Originally Posted by luismas View Post
    Personally, I believe that the culture of my philosophy has very much to do with the will of sharing it; in such way, is it not in benefit of my bodily self, strictly, but in benefit of whatever I pass down. One can also mentor by way of literature and other media, but the effect may not be the same.
    Mentoring is not the same as passing down education, and simply learning. It is taking someone under your wings.. standing with them, and dedicating time, energy, and action to ensuring you set someone else up for success. It goes beyond mere education. It's why 'smaller classes' are so advertised in colleges and schools. It's why private schooling costs so much. The effort to focus your attention on another individual is a huge difference. If everyone learned by just making information available... ... well... the world would be pretty kick-ass. But unfortunately, many of us do not learn that easily.

    Tradition, by itself, means the passing of something to an other. This is one of the reasons why many people feel the need to have children: tradition. However, the balance between selflessness and selfishness is usually there. These days, people seem to prefer sharing in an impersonal way (the sharing of knowledge on the internet comes to mind), probably due to the nature of modern lifestyles and communities. Mentoring has perhaps taken a very materialistic edge, that is to say, comfort, security, power are usually more valued than past time traditions.
    I would argue that comfort, security, and power being coveted is exactly why mentoring has all but vanished. As long as *I'm* taken care of, I may bother to help out if it's not too much.. I may tell him/her how to do it the right way, otherwise I'll have to fix their mistakes later.. Just telling someone how to do something isn't mentoring. As far as tradition.. The knowledge doesn't have to be traditional in the sense that "you MUST do things this way"... But traditional in the sense that someone more experienced is dedicating themselves to a younger person for their sake? Yes, mentoring is very traditional in how it is done.

    Nothing can replace face-time and focused attention. Not books, internet, videos.. Nothing.

    I think it's a combination of children being more and more rebellious, angry, medicated.. whatever you want to call it.. and adults being less likely to want to take an active part in that mess. Kids seem to not want it, adults seem to care less about it, so especially with adults who have no desire for children.. they just want to take their hand out of the pot entirely. As if children, in general, aren't still somewhat the responsibility of adults. But it's never personal when you speak in generals like that. It's hard to tell someone, "You're responsible for helping children!" .. Even if that's what best. You can't make someone acknowledge that.. but without adults, all adults, taking active stances, children and young adults will continue to rage out of control, develop disorders, and fall short.

    Parents think it's the school's responsibility to teach.. teachers think it's the parents responsibility to discipline (and even when they don't think that.. the school board's rules tells them this is the case).. Other adults don't want anything to do with kids incase a parent gets offended.. The lack of community really hurts the children in the end. This over-protective, my-kid-would-never, you-better-not-touch-my-kid, wtf-do-you-care-what-i-do-as-a-parent mentality really ends up harming children.

    I'm all for thinking independently, and not judging.. but a concise thought process on the roles of adults, not just parents, in a kid's life, needs to manifest itself. Throwing everything on the parents just creates bad kids and bad parents.. It truly does take a village to raise a child.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    perhaps it has to do with being an ENFP, but mentoring has been second nature to me since I was in first grade and making younger children my "apprentices" . I've always gotten along well with younger people and fall int an adviser role quite naturally
    I have as well. I've become fairly decent at not getting hurt when my advice isn't followed... ESPECIALLY when I see exactly what I told them would happen.. happen.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I think this is my conclusion. Once you become completely self-supporting and independent.... There wouldn't be much else for me. Fill my days with tons of hobbies? I have no desire for children of my own, no, but I do desire to pass down lessons.. to make others in the world in the position I am in. To show everyone how I did it so that they can as well.

    Maybe I won't pass down the tradition of christmas dinner or something.. But the tradition of wanting to be in a leadership role of SOME sort is something I desire. I can think of no more noble leadership style than that of teaching and dedicated mentoring. Even when I was a child, I started to help first graders that didn't quite learn to read yet on how I learned how to read.. I was in 5th grade at the time. I did a lot of teaching in small groups in college, and I am sure I'll continue to do so.. I truly enjoyed my job on teaching others on how to paint. And I don't even desire to be a teacher!

    But this doesn't seem to be the sentiment anymore.. The whole world is "dog eat dog", "Get a job you bum", "figure it out", out-for-themselves type. My sister, were I not there, wouldn't have had any mentor at all. People just want to stay in their own lane, and settle in and forget that there's more work to be done out there.. Bigger things than just themselves. Even if you don't like kids.. mentoring comes in all shapes and sizes.
    Man. Yeah. Definitely this. Like, all of it.

    Being able to be self-sufficiency and to figure stuff out is great. But a good mentor can cultivate others' self-sufficiency--which seems pretty counter-intuitive, but it's true. The key is to not coddle or abandon, but to foster growth.

    I tell you, I have next to zero loyalty to people who I feel don't have my best interests at heart, and I wouldn't expect anyone to be loyal to me if my attention weren't placed on them either.
    --
    One of my problems in mentoring had been a strong belief that I don't know what's best for other people and, really, why should I be arrogant enough to impose or believe that I have the answers? But I've come to realize that it's alright to say that I've "made it" (but am still learning/growing, of course) in at least certain aspects of my life. I can talk about my experiences to an interested audience and see if part of it resonates with them or if they happen to take something away from it.

    If my attitude toward life demonstrates that I know what I'm talking about, then they may feel that they've got something to learn from me. Of course, if that attitude isn't genuine, then it'll eventually fall apart--and at least a part of me would feel guilty about misleading people.

  7. #7
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    @kyuuei
    I would argue that comfort, security, and power being coveted is exactly why mentoring has all but vanished. As long as *I'm* taken care of, I may bother to help out if it's not too much.. I may tell him/her how to do it the right way, otherwise I'll have to fix their mistakes later.. Just telling someone how to do something isn't mentoring. As far as tradition.. The knowledge doesn't have to be traditional in the sense that "you MUST do things this way"... But traditional in the sense that someone more experienced is dedicating themselves to a younger person for their sake? Yes, mentoring is very traditional in how it is done.

    Nothing can replace face-time and focused attention. Not books, internet, videos.. Nothing.

    I think it's a combination of children being more and more rebellious, angry, medicated.. whatever you want to call it.. and adults being less likely to want to take an active part in that mess. Kids seem to not want it, adults seem to care less about it, so especially with adults who have no desire for children.. they just want to take their hand out of the pot entirely. As if children, in general, aren't still somewhat the responsibility of adults. But it's never personal when you speak in generals like that. It's hard to tell someone, "You're responsible for helping children!" .. Even if that's what best. You can't make someone acknowledge that.. but without adults, all adults, taking active stances, children and young adults will continue to rage out of control, develop disorders, and fall short.

    Parents think it's the school's responsibility to teach.. teachers think it's the parents responsibility to discipline (and even when they don't think that.. the school board's rules tells them this is the case).. Other adults don't want anything to do with kids incase a parent gets offended.. The lack of community really hurts the children in the end. This over-protective, my-kid-would-never, you-better-not-touch-my-kid, wtf-do-you-care-what-i-do-as-a-parent mentality really ends up harming children.

    I'm all for thinking independently, and not judging.. but a concise thought process on the roles of adults, not just parents, in a kid's life, needs to manifest itself. Throwing everything on the parents just creates bad kids and bad parents.. It truly does take a village to raise a child.
    - I think part of the reason it's taken a back seat is because people's lives are cluttered. because of this, they lack time to relax, time to reflect, strong focus on the activities they are a part of and often lack priorities. these sorts of things are necessary for a good mentor to have. people are either spinning too many plates already or distracted/confused
    - I don't necessarily think it's the responsibility of "all" adults to be mentors and certainly parents, school teachers and family. helping out with other people's children is a wonderful thing, but it's hard to draw the line of where responsibility starts/ends (and personally I feel drawing a line is an important to use mental energy more efficiently and deliberately when it comes to responsibilities)

    Parents think it's the school's responsibility to teach.. teachers think it's the parents responsibility to discipline (and even when they don't think that.. the school board's rules tells them this is the case).. Other adults don't want anything to do with kids incase a parent gets offended.. The lack of community really hurts the children in the end. This over-protective, my-kid-would-never, you-better-not-touch-my-kid, wtf-do-you-care-what-i-do-as-a-parent mentality really ends up harming children.
    I really agree with this. children need interaction, individual attention and discipline. people these days think that they can just run their children through this conveyor belt system that is public school-college-house-job-kids-rinse and repeat, give them food and water and that's enough. children are human beings who will eventually need to fend for themselves, not pets. raising a child is work and requires communication, discipline, love, attention and a host of other things. irresponsible parents really piss me off

    I have as well. I've become fairly decent at not getting hurt when my advice isn't followed... ESPECIALLY when I see exactly what I told them would happen.. happen.
    for me it was never much of an issue because of my mentoring style. my mentoring style is more like an older brother/friend, so I tend to be more like "it's probably better if you do this, but if you don't, you may suffer consequences" or "based on my experience, this action generally gets better results, but it's not a black and white rule or anything". I'm there to be a source of information, experience, a fresh perspective, make connections for them they might have missed (being an ENFP, I'm pretty damn good at this even with people older than me) and, at the right place and time, someone to cry, vent or talk to. I can understand your frustration though lol
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    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    I absolutely love mentoring/ teaching people. Whether it's just tutoring or helping people figure out what they want to do with their lives. I think it takes a lot of natural skill but not a lot of knowledge. When I help people realize something within themselves (even if it's just the 8 year old suddenly having the "aha" moment about a silent "k" when reading) or if it's something bigger then that, it makes me very happy. As a teacher I'm more of a learner than the learner is. I'm learning about the person, I'm learning whatever they have to offer the world and how they can do it. My job is just to ask them all the right questions to help them realize it as well. I love seeing students in my workplace and I think they love to see me.

    On a bigger level, yes, this role is very important- of course, ... I think everyone needs something to model after even if they end up making it their own in the end- (become stronger than whoever they model after.) Otherwise, the world wouldn't advance very quickly. (I think it would still advance, just not very well.) My "life" mentor/ teacher/ model is my grandmother (ENFP), and I can't imagine what kind of a person I'd be or what I would have to contribute without her helping to mold me. (I swear she still "molds" me from her place in the universe and it can get annoying at times- but I digress.)

    More editing, (a lot of people have probably already read my post but I want to add more.) I think mothers who are "just" mothers play a really important role, too. Even if you're out in the world doing all these amazing things to improve the planet, you still have an essence of your mothers mothers mothers mother coming out-... So it's like your mothers mothers mothers mother is secretly the true hero- she's still contributing to the world hundreds of years later.
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  9. #9
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    - I think part of the reason it's taken a back seat is because people's lives are cluttered. because of this, they lack time to relax, time to reflect, strong focus on the activities they are a part of and often lack priorities. these sorts of things are necessary for a good mentor to have. people are either spinning too many plates already or distracted/confused
    I never have, and never will, buy the "I don't have time" excuse. Even if everyone is different.. people ALL have the same amount of time in a day. People MAKE time for many things.. they focus, set it aside, and when it is something they desire/something THEY require, they have all the time in the world. But when it comes to being dedicated to making time for others... Suddenly, they're stressed out, there's work to do, they have so much already... etc. It's BS to me.

    - I don't necessarily think it's the responsibility of "all" adults to be mentors and certainly parents, school teachers and family. helping out with other people's children is a wonderful thing, but it's hard to draw the line of where responsibility starts/ends (and personally I feel drawing a line is an important to use mental energy more efficiently and deliberately when it comes to responsibilities)
    Like I said.. our society is all over the place when it comes this issue, and I think mentoring and children are what suffers from that. Everyone knows "Where I stand on x." ... The problem is, Nobody knows "Where we stand on x."

    And anyone who says it isn't their responsibility to help with children is way more heartless and selfish than I could ever imagine.

    No, it isn't your responsibility to parent another person's child. But all adults have all children as their responsibility. They may not want it, but it is theirs. It's why you don't cuss infront of people's kids. It's why you don't act like a fool in child-friendly places. It's why toy drives are organized and ran. It's why you watch out for children, and when you see suspicious activity you either notify parents/authorities, or investigate the situation yourself. It's why if a child is lost, you notify a police officer or security person in the area instead of leaving it to fend for its own. It's why when you're at the beach, you tend to take note that children are in the area.. and notice if one disappears too long underwater. It's why shop owners don't sue a mother when she didn't see a kid take a small toy and stick it in their pocket, and forgive instead. It is the job of everyone to keep an eye out for the benefit of children. Maybe you haven't come in contact with all of these scenarios, but they are all valid ways that adults take care of children.

    Anything less... it's a bit too horrifying for me to imagine someone walking right by a lost, scared child. Even if the parent is crabby when they find them.
    If you're telling me none of these situations apply to you.. (I think in all of these scenarios, adults would pay attention to kids but not fellow adults) then I'll tell you that you need to do some serious searching for what kind of member of society you are.

    I really agree with this. children need interaction, individual attention and discipline. people these days think that they can just run their children through this conveyor belt system that is public school-college-house-job-kids-rinse and repeat, give them food and water and that's enough. children are human beings who will eventually need to fend for themselves, not pets. raising a child is work and requires communication, discipline, love, attention and a host of other things. irresponsible parents really piss me off
    The problem is, adults are irresponsible about it. We've thrown EVERYTHING on the shoulders of parents. The fact that parenting skills are seriously declining in society is MORE proof that adults other than the parents need to step up and take an active role in mentoring children and young adults. Relying on parents to do everything is setting everyone up for failure. Yes, parents SHOULD be the primary mentors of children... but we don't live in a 'should be' world.

    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    On a bigger level, yes, this role is very important- of course, ... I think everyone needs something to model after even if they end up making it their own in the end- (become stronger than whoever they model after.) Otherwise, the world wouldn't advance very quickly. (I think it would still advance, just not very well.) My "life" mentor/ teacher/ model is my grandmother (ENFP), and I can't imagine what kind of a person I'd be or what I would have to contribute without her helping to mold me. (I swear she still "molds" me from her place in the universe and it can get annoying at times- but I digress.)

    More editing, (a lot of people have probably already read my post but I want to add more.) I think mothers who are "just" mothers play a really important role, too. Even if you're out in the world doing all these amazing things to improve the planet, you still have an essence of your mothers mothers mothers mother coming out-... So it's like your mothers mothers mothers mother is secretly the true hero- she's still contributing to the world hundreds of years later.
    Extremely well said.
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    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I never have, and never will, buy the "I don't have time" excuse. Even if everyone is different.. people ALL have the same amount of time in a day. People MAKE time for many things.. they focus, set it aside, and when it is something they desire/something THEY require, they have all the time in the world. But when it comes to being dedicated to making time for others... Suddenly, they're stressed out, there's work to do, they have so much already... etc. It's BS to me.
    I'm not saying they can't make time, I'm saying they need to make more time first. most people's lives are a cluttered mess


    Like I said.. our society is all over the place when it comes this issue, and I think mentoring and children are what suffers from that. Everyone knows "Where I stand on x." ... The problem is, Nobody knows "Where we stand on x."
    And anyone who says it isn't their responsibility to help with children is way more heartless and selfish than I could ever imagine
    .
    it's not my responsibility to help children, but I do it anyway. you shouldn't be so quick to throw such harsh labels on those who don't share your values (while I am a heartless bastard and feel no remorse for it, some people who agree with me are not)

    No, it isn't your responsibility to parent another person's child. But all adults have all children as their responsibility. They may not want it, but it is theirs. It's why you don't cuss infront of people's kids. It's why you don't act like a fool in child-friendly places.
    these are responsibilities to NOT do, not responsibilities to do. there is a difference. doing these things is causing indirect harm to another person (in the form of bad influence on a child). the question here is not "what can I do to help?" but "will what I'm doing have a detrimental effect"

    It's why toy drives are organized and ran.
    that is a conviction, not an obligation. more power to them, it's an awesome conviction, but a conviction just the same. it's certainly not anyone's responsibility to start/work in a toy drive

    It's why you watch out for children, and when you see suspicious activity you either notify parents/authorities, or investigate the situation yourself. It's why if a child is lost, you notify a police officer or security person in the area instead of leaving it to fend for its own. It's why when you're at the beach, you tend to take note that children are in the area.. and notice if one disappears too long underwater. It's why shop owners don't sue a mother when she didn't see a kid take a small toy and stick it in their pocket, and forgive instead. It is the job of everyone to keep an eye out for the benefit of children. Maybe you haven't come in contact with all of these scenarios, but they are all valid ways that adults take care of children.
    I think these are all natural protective instincts more than obligations, at least for me. I've always just kinda done these things (are you saying most people don't?)

    Anything less... it's a bit too horrifying for me to imagine someone walking right by a lost, scared child. Even if the parent is crabby when they find them.
    If you're telling me none of these situations apply to you.. (I think in all of these scenarios, adults would pay attention to kids but not fellow adults) then I'll tell you that you need to do some serious searching for what kind of member of society you are.
    more pragmatically, whoever would walk by a scared, lost, starving child probably has some serious issues to work out themselves. they would likely do society a better service by attending to those first.

    The problem is, adults are irresponsible about it. We've thrown EVERYTHING on the shoulders of parents. The fact that parenting skills are seriously declining in society is MORE proof that adults other than the parents need to step up and take an active role in mentoring children and young adults. Relying on parents to do everything is setting everyone up for failure. Yes, parents SHOULD be the primary mentors of children... but we don't live in a 'should be' world.
    agreed
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    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 04-15-2011, 04:23 AM
  2. The Future
    By Risen in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 12-28-2008, 05:01 PM
  3. The Future of Reading and Writing
    By kuranes in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12-05-2008, 12:28 PM
  4. BBC Visions of the Future series
    By Splittet in forum Science, Technology, and Future Tech
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 08-31-2008, 10:31 AM
  5. Your Predictions About the Future of Psychotherapy
    By ThatsWhatHeSaid in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 08-06-2008, 07:58 PM

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