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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Do you consider yourself a mentor?
    If I am one, then I'm probably a pretty poor one.

  2. #12
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I'm not saying they can't make time, I'm saying they need to make more time first. most people's lives are a cluttered mess
    It wasn't an argument against your point, just expanding upon it.

    .
    it's not my responsibility to help children, but I do it anyway. you shouldn't be so quick to throw such harsh labels on those who don't share your values (while I am a heartless bastard and feel no remorse for it, some people who agree with me are not)
    *Technically* nothing is your responsibility. Nothing at all. It really isn't your responsibility to pay your bills, or buy yourself clothing, or do anything. We could argue semantics all day. What I am saying is, Society's fluid laws state that adults DO have the responsibility to protect and help guide children. I was proving that with the points I made... Even if you don't do ALL of the situations, at least one would have applied to your life at any given point in time. You fulfill them because it is your innate instinct to be responsible for those more inexperienced than you. Even if THAT isn't true, society pressures them to be instilled in your being. And that isn't a bad thing. Sometimes that group-mentality all the young people try to rebel against SO hard isn't such an awful thing. It CAN be.. but thorns don't make a rose not worth it.

    It isn't a value *I* have. My personal values would involve a LOT more than the bare minimums, which I considered my points to be. It isn't a judgmental thing. It's just the way it is. These are society's values.

    My point is... When did society move to stopping at the bare minimum of everything? Why are the points I made the only ones I can think of as common examples? When did mentoring go to the wayside?

    these are responsibilities to NOT do, not responsibilities to do. there is a difference. doing these things is causing indirect harm to another person (in the form of bad influence on a child). the question here is not "what can I do to help?" but "will what I'm doing have a detrimental effect"
    You're picking things apart here for the sake of it. If it is your responsibility to not do something.. It is still a responsibility. You literally cannot say that sentence out loud without the words "It is your responsibility" in that order. Your motivations behind fulfilling that responsibility are irrelevent.

    that is a conviction, not an obligation. more power to them, it's an awesome conviction, but a conviction just the same. it's certainly not anyone's responsibility to start/work in a toy drive
    Like I said. Not every person fulfills every example. But everyone has done at least one of those things.. Even if you never ran into the unlikely scenario of watching a child threatened by a suspicious adult.. Many people have done something as simple as donate to a toy drive.

    I think these are all natural protective instincts more than obligations, at least for me. I've always just kinda done these things (are you saying most people don't?)
    I'm saying you're picking apart my examples, instead of looking at them as a whole. The entire example piece was to show that there are some things that adults do that they acknowledge is something they should do as an adult towards children. Innate instinct, or society pressuring you into believing it, where ever the roots came from, the idea is there.

    My questioning is not whether responsibility towards children, from adults, exists. It absolutely does, as long as someone wants to be a member of society. (You want to never interact with another human again and live in a cave your whole life with no contact to the outside world, be my guest. but I'm talking about your average adult.) Just like it is your duty to call 911 if you see someone being murdered, instead of just walking away. Those are bare minimum duties...

    Again. My question in this thread is.. do you go above the bare minimum? do you take an active role in the children of your community? And if you do not.. why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    If I am one, then I'm probably a pretty poor one.
    Do you know why? Have you ever tried to reach out to someone before and help them, child or young adult?
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  3. #13
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Self-reflection and the ability to learn something new from others or to teach something new to others, to gain wisdom is the sole thing that keeps life intresting for me.

    Being a disciple or being a mentor both is intresting to me and was in my whole life the one and only thing where I at all learnt what life is about. Being the disciple gives you the ability to doublecheck your opinion and to grow stronger in it. It helps you to manifest a character and become a personality with an attitude. Being a mentor is what happens in the future. It is the egoistic tool to win people over for your opinion. Still its not supposed to brainwash everyone into having your opinion, you want a disciple for intellectual exchange and you can anytime learn as much from him as he can learn from you, you just have to prevent yourself from becoming grumpy. Mentoring is not objective, its about learning an opinion and taking it on so it becomes your personality. Everyone needs to do that at some point in their lifes.

    Imo people have mislearned today what it means to listen. Most people think having an academic degree, the older people who have not, have nothing to say to them. Those people are pretty unwise and regulary land on their noses.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  4. #14
    Senior Member Turtledove's Avatar
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    Well...I don't think I'm a good one unless I know how to discipline a child. If the child is willing to be taught, then I think so...I'm a volunteer Sunday School teacher. The job was put onto me after I went through a training course for 8 months and once I left some crumby friends behind. So I work with 5th grade girls keeping records of scriptures they have said. Because the head teacher wanted someone that was a woman who was artistically gifted. Later on after a couple of years being in there I started doing activities with the kids. I really do enjoy it. Some of the girls that move on still come now and then to hug me.

    So, everyone always seems to ask me now I have a BGS degree with an art concentration, why don't I become an art teacher. I say "No, I'm not a babysitter and I'm not taking a test that costs $300 and would probably fail it to try to get a job I don't want." It's different when you have 4 people who are teachers working with 17+ girls for about half a day once a week but it's another to be one teacher with 24+ kids 5 days a week.

    Probably not what you were asking for but...
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  5. #15
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turtledove View Post
    Well...I don't think I'm a good one unless I know how to discipline a child. If the child is willing to be taught, then I think so...I'm a volunteer Sunday School teacher. The job was put onto me after I went through a training course for 8 months and once I left some crumby friends behind. So I work with 5th grade girls keeping records of scriptures they have said. Because the head teacher wanted someone that was a woman who was artistically gifted. Later on after a couple of years being in there I started doing activities with the kids. I really do enjoy it. Some of the girls that move on still come now and then to hug me.

    So, everyone always seems to ask me now I have a BGS degree with an art concentration, why don't I become an art teacher. I say "No, I'm not a babysitter and I'm not taking a test that costs $300 and would probably fail it to try to get a job I don't want." It's different when you have 4 people who are teachers working with 17+ girls for about half a day once a week but it's another to be one teacher with 24+ kids 5 days a week.

    Probably not what you were asking for but...
    But being a mentor and being a teacher are two different shoes. One shouldnt mix em in the same bowl
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  6. #16
    Senior Member Turtledove's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    But being a mentor and being a teacher are two different shoes. One shouldnt mix em in the same bowl
    I don't understand...what's the difference? Aren't they the same synonym?
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  7. #17
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turtledove View Post
    I don't understand...what's the difference? Aren't they the same synonym?
    No actually its exactly the sympton that is different.

    In Greek mythology, Mentor (Greek: Μέντωρ / Méntōr; gen.: Μέντορος)[1] was the son of Alcimus or Anchialus. In his old age Mentor was a friend of Odysseus who placed Mentor and Odysseus' foster-brother Eumaeus in charge of his son Telemachus, and of Odysseus' palace, when Odysseus left for the Trojan War.

    When Athena visited Telemachus she took the disguise of Mentor to hide herself from the suitors of Telemachus' mother Penelope.[2] As Mentor, the goddess encouraged Telemachus to stand up against the suitors and go abroad to find out what happened to his father. When Odysseus returned to Ithaca, Athena appeared briefly in the form of Mentor again at Odysseus' palace.

    Because of Mentor's relationship with Telemachus, and the disguised Athena's encouragement and practical plans for dealing personal dilemmas, the personal name Mentor has been adopted in English as a term meaning someone who imparts wisdom to and shares knowledge with a less experienced colleague.
    A teacher provides education to people who had little or none before. A mentor is someone who for example works for 20 more years in your field and can encourage you in your personality judging from his experience.

    A teacher was explicitly set out to educate you and he does that over and over again with the years. A mentor is a companion you meet in life by sharing and equal path and who can teach you by experience how not to stumble. Being a teacher is a profession, having a mentor is luck.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  8. #18
    Senior Member Turtledove's Avatar
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    @entropie I understand now. Thankyou.
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  9. #19
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    I have been asked to identify and mentor a future manager / leader within the organisation from within my department. The problem is I don't have confidence in any of them! I naturally encourage professional development and always find money for training events, but don't feel that anyone has the integrity, drive, determination or imagination that I would expect from a manager. If I had to pick anyone I would go with the younger members of the department as they are the ones that have the most scope for development and possibly the hunger for it. I am a very harsh critic, but I think I would rather make an external appointment when the time comes!
    Last edited by Valis; 12-24-2011 at 04:48 AM.

  10. #20
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Parents think it's the school's responsibility to teach.. teachers think it's the parents responsibility to discipline (and even when they don't think that.. the school board's rules tells them this is the case).. Other adults don't want anything to do with kids incase a parent gets offended.. The lack of community really hurts the children in the end. This over-protective, my-kid-would-never, you-better-not-touch-my-kid, wtf-do-you-care-what-i-do-as-a-parent mentality really ends up harming children.
    It's not just reluctance on the part of other adults, or occasional offense taken by parents. School systems and other kids' organizations are making it more and more difficult for adults in the community to interact with kids, citing safety and legal concerns. At least one of the school districts in my area requires parents chaperoning field trips to have background checks. All this legalistic alarmism makes it difficult for motivated, capable adults to interact with kids, deprives the kids of much needed attention, and cuts schools off from the human resources of the community.

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    The problem is, adults are irresponsible about it. We've thrown EVERYTHING on the shoulders of parents. The fact that parenting skills are seriously declining in society is MORE proof that adults other than the parents need to step up and take an active role in mentoring children and young adults. Relying on parents to do everything is setting everyone up for failure. Yes, parents SHOULD be the primary mentors of children... but we don't live in a 'should be' world.
    The increased mobility of society is a major culprit. In earlier generations, there were adults around other than parents -- grandparents, aunts and uncles, long-term neighbors. Now, many families live away from extended family, and neighborhood turnover means neighbors are often strangers. Parenting skills may actually not be that bad, but there is no longer a local support system.

    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    A teacher was explicitly set out to educate you and he does that over and over again with the years. A mentor is a companion you meet in life by sharing and equal path and who can teach you by experience how not to stumble. Being a teacher is a profession, having a mentor is luck.
    The two roles are not that distinct. A mentor often teaches, and a teacher can be a mentor. It depends upon the specific nature of the relationship.

    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    One of my problems in mentoring had been a strong belief that I don't know what's best for other people and, really, why should I be arrogant enough to impose or believe that I have the answers? But I've come to realize that it's alright to say that I've "made it" (but am still learning/growing, of course) in at least certain aspects of my life. I can talk about my experiences to an interested audience and see if part of it resonates with them or if they happen to take something away from it.
    I agree, I may not know what's best for someone, but I can often tell when they are doing something just plain bad. I can ask the right questions to get them to consider the consequences, and find their own best solution.

    When it comes to my profession, though, or certain outside interests, I do know what's best, especially for someone just starting out. Once they are on the right track and have a firm footing in the basics, they can branch out on their own.

    I mentor several junior employees at work. This helps me, by enabling them to take over more of the workload; but it helps them just as much, by giving them the skills and understanding they need to progress in their career. In the long term, it helps our organization by ensuring there are people to take over as senior people retire. I probably come across as a demanding mentor in that I don't accept mediocrity, and I don't overlook mistakes. I encourage effort, and reserve praise for real results. As long as someone is doing their best, though, I will do all I can to help them improve and give them the tools they need to be successful. To some degree, I find myself counteracting society's preference for superficiality and instant gratification, since my profession requires depth, precision, and persistence. But the joy of true accomplishment is like none other.

    I also do some limited mentoring as a volunteer. I do science demonstrations for school and scout groups, and help with science fair projects. I call this limited since I don't get to spend very much time with each student, but I try in that time to highlight things they won't get in their classes. I never know how I might have impacted some of the students, but at minimum I can give them some insight into the realities of my field and my career, plus some skill tips that apply not just to science, but to life.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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