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Greed

Giggly

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Big business has been demanding both top-notch skill/expertise AND social/emotional intelligence in their employees for decades, yet they are still whining about not being able to find both of those things in one person so easily. I wonder why they bother to keep demanding this. I mean like, you can't make some dry, cold person become more authentically social or warm, and you can't make a squishy social butterfly become more calculating with killer instincts. By the time people become balanced their career is almost over anyway. They just sound like a broken record. I think it's funny that they still don't put "Must have Emotional and Social intelligence" in job descriptions. Why is that, I wonder?

http://blogs.hbr.org/cs/2011/10/the_must-have_leadership_skill.html

The Must-Have Leadership Skill

3:19 PM Friday October 14, 2011
by Daniel Goleman
Daniel Goleman is Co-Director of the Consortium for Research on Emotional Intelligence in Organizations at Rutgers University, co-author of Primal Leadership: Leading with Emotional Intelligence, and author of The Brain and Emotional Intelligence: New Insights and Leadership: Selected Writings.


"We hired a new CEO, but had to let him go after just seven months," the chairman of an East Coast think tank complained to me recently. "His resume looked spectacular, he did splendidly in all the interviews. But within a week or two we were hearing pushback from the staff. They were telling us, 'You hired a first-rate economist with zero social intelligence.' He was pure command and control."

The think tank's work centers on interlocking networks of relationships with the board, staff, donors, and a wide variety of academics and policy experts. The CEO urgently needed to manage those relationships, but lacked the interpersonal skills that organizations increasingly need in their leaders. A CEO who fails to navigate those relationships artfully, the think tank's board saw, could torpedo the organization.

Why does social intelligence emerge as the make-or-break leadership skill set? For one, leadership is the art of accomplishing goals through other people.

As I've written with my colleague Richard Boyatzis, technical skills and self-mastery alone allow you to be an outstanding individual contributor. But to lead, you need an additional interpersonal skill set: you've got to listen, communicate, persuade, collaborate.

That was brought home to me yet again reading "Making Yourself Indispensable," by John H. Zenger, Joseph R. Folkman, and Scott E. Edinger, which makes the strong point that a leader's competencies are synergistic. The more different competencies a leader displays at strength, the greater her business results.

But there's another critically important rule-of-thumb: some competencies matter more than others, particularly at the higher levels of leadership. For C-level executives, for example, technical expertise matters far less than the art of influence: you can hire people with great technical skills, but then you've got to motivate, guide and inspire them.

While Zenger, Folkman, and Edinger make a strong empirical case that competencies matter, it overlooks a crucial point: some competencies matter more than others. Specifically, there are threshold competencies, the abilities every leader needs to some degree, and then there are distinguishing competencies, the abilities you find only in the stars.

You can be the most brilliant innovator, problem-solver or strategic thinker, but if you can't inspire and motivate, build relationships or communicate powerfully, those talents will get you nowhere. What Zenger and colleagues call the "interpersonal skills" — and what I call social intelligence — are the secret sauce in top-performing leadership.

Lacking social intelligence, no other combination of competences is likely to get much traction. Along with whatever other strengths they may have, the must-have is social intelligence.

So how do you spot this skill set? An executive with a long track record of satisfactory hires told me how his organization assessed social intelligence in a prospect during the round of interviews, group sessions, meals, and parties that candidates there routinely went through.

"We'd watch carefully to see if she talks to everyone at the party or a dinner, not just the people who might be helpful to her," he said. One of the social intelligence indicators: during a getting-to-know you conversation, does the candidate ask about the other person or engage in a self-centered monologue? At the same time, does she talk about herself in a natural way? At the end of the conversation, you should feel you know the person, not just the social self she tries to project.

I wouldn't use such subjective measures alone — you're better off to combine them with best practices on hiring without firing. But don't ignore your gut.
 

highlander

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Big business has been demanding both top-notch skill/expertise AND social/emotional intelligence in their employees for decades, yet they are still whining about not being able to find both of those things in one person so easily. I wonder why they bother to keep demanding this. I mean like, you can't make some dry, cold person become more authentically social or warm, and you can't make a squishy social butterfly become more calculating with killer instincts. By the time people become balanced their career is almost over anyway. They just sound like a broken record. I think it's funny that they still don't put "Must have Emotional and Social intelligence" in job descriptions. Why is that, I wonder?

http://blogs.hbr.org/cs/2011/10/the_must-have_leadership_skill.html

The reason they bother is because it relates directly to performance - both of the individual and of the team or organization they lead. Poor leadership results in lower productivity, morale problems and turnover. Even if those things are not immediately apparent and the person gets short term results, the impacts are definitely felt over time.
 

Elfboy

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The reason they bother is because it relates directly to performance - both of the individual and of the team or organization they lead. Poor leadership results in lower productivity, morale problems and turnover. Even if those things are not immediately apparent and the person gets short term results, the impacts are definitely felt over time.

+7
business is business. those without the skills should get different jobs.
 

Elfboy

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Big business has been demanding both top-notch skill/expertise AND social/emotional intelligence in their employees for decades, yet they are still whining about not being able to find both of those things in one person so easily. I wonder why they bother to keep demanding this. I mean like, you can't make some dry, cold person become more authentically social or warm, and you can't make a squishy social butterfly become more calculating with killer instincts. By the time people become balanced their career is almost over anyway. They just sound like a broken record. I think it's funny that they still don't put "Must have Emotional and Social intelligence" in job descriptions. Why is that, I wonder?

http://blogs.hbr.org/cs/2011/10/the_must-have_leadership_skill.html

you would be surprised what people are capable of when they are forced to learn skills to survive. when your ability to eat is on the line, most people are capable of much more than they previously realized.
 

Jaguar

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But to lead, you need an additional interpersonal skill set: you've got to listen, communicate, persuade, collaborate.

Exactly.

Even someone like myself, who is basically autonomous in nature, knows that in business you have to collaborate to get things done. It might take some extra energy to do it, but it's a must if you want to make something fly. It's that simple. As far as why they are demanding it, Giggly, it's because it's doable. That's why. In the past few decades, I have known many people like myself who can do it all. I disagree that it's difficult to find people who can. Where there's a will, there's a way.

Giggly said:
I mean like, you can't make some dry, cold person become more authentically social or warm, and you can't make a squishy social butterfly become more calculating with killer instincts.

In the business world, I don't come across those stereotypical extremes.
 

Halla74

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The technique you described in the OP has two purposes:

(1) It is the same tactic used by a person about to buy a new car. The dealer wants to sell you something on the lot. If you have any brains, you will quickly assess what the dealer DOES have on the lot, and when the sales rep asks you what you are looking for, ask to test drive a model that they do not have as part of their inventory. If you want a red car with black leather interior, and they have one, you tell them that you want a blue car with white leather interior (since they don't have it, they will then be forced to start discounting/offering "incentives" (cash back, better financing, etc.) to compel you to purchase out of their inventory.

When corporations do this, they create a false sense of dissatisfaction on their part that "hardly any" of the job seekers in the labor market have *EXACTLY* the skill they want to hire for a given position, so they will tell candidates that are "almost qualified" that they will *DO THEM a FAVOR* and hire them in as a "growth opportunity* but at a lower salary than what is asked for by the interviewee, because they are not "exactly what the employer was looking for." It's a smoke and mirrors game.

(2) Even if employers found the EXACT blend of both top-notch skill/expertise AND social/emotional intelligence it wouldn't do them much good because more likely than not that company's organization culture and organizational design are not ready to utilize multi-talented/skilled staff.

For instance, for years employers have been beating their chests that they want workers who (a) Think "Out of the Box", (b) Have "Natural Leadership Skills", and (c) are willing to "Wear Many Hats" as rapidly changing business needs require.

BULLSHIT. I exhibit all of the traits above (a, b, and c) and no employer I've worked for in the past 9 years has allowed me to fully utilize my natural skill set along with my education/work experience to create new efficiencies and make significant improvements to the way things have always been done.

It's double speak.

If you want to realize your full potential in the job markett create your own work, and don't limit yourself with the antiquated precedents of other people's dysfunctional companies/organizations.

:solidarity:

-Alex
 

ICUP

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The way I see it is this:

In general:

There are "leader" personalities, who are gifted to lead, and there are those who have proven themselves through competency and tactfulness. They land in the successful leadership roles. Some people naturally have a combination corporations are looking for, and they move ahead of the pack. They are built-to-last, when everyone else fails. During a time like we are seeing now of economic downturn, they are the people left standing.

(I think a person who is naturally gifted in leadership, or anyone else in a leadership position, has to adapt to these roles. The key here is adaptability. You CAN bring out the best in people. No you can't make a person who is cold and calculating into someone who is of a different nature, but the person can adapt and grow into a positive role, and move toward a more positive personality that people like. You have to make yourself fit into the company culture; it will not change to suit you. You can't waltz in and do it your way, and this is where many people fail. Many people are unwilling to listen and adapt.)

Below them are people who need to be managed. Some of these include great minds who don't do well in leadership positions, but are worthy thinkers and/or doers. Competent in some aspects, but failures at leading. (Many of them have been tested at it.) It's very possible to be one of these, and not be too easy to get along with. It takes having a great or good mind, and performing jobs that everyone couldn't - being specialized.

And then there are the people who don't last; the ones who, when the economy sinks, they aren't needed to keep the ship running. The ones who don't learn well and don't listen, and/or don't get along. The ones that other people have to follow around with a mop to clean up their messes. The ones where, their skills are not enough to be worth the trouble, and messes they make.

I think corporations are demanding both top-notch skill/expertise AND social/emotional intelligence because it does exist; it's just rather rare. Businesses are letting people know what they want, and in-which direction to move and grow. They are showing you what they need to fill positions that are left open, many times, and some poor soul is working three people's jobs to fill them all, because they can't find anyone who fits the bill. LoL....... My S.O., for instance, has not been able to find anyone to hire for years that fits all of the qualifications, since it is a specialized skillset. So he continues handling all of these jobs himself, because he has no time to train anyone new. If you are lucky enough to find a situation where you can be mentored and trained properly, and you are adaptable and willing to listen and grow, there is nothing holding you back but yourself and your own issues. The sky's the limit. You can be that in-demand person that corporations are looking for, and you can be paid big for it.

I don't know why they don't put "must have social and emotional intelligence" in the job descriptions, but I think it may be because some people are hired who don't have it, and their skills are such that people do work-arounds in order to deal with it. Sometimes, that's the best you can find, when you need a specialized skillset or a good mind, is someone who is pretty terrible socially. In fact, great minds tend to come along with poor social skills lol.... I think some people are hoping to mentor those skills into people, or successfully manage what they have.

EDIT: The S.O. said that everyone would tell you they have social and emotional intelligence anyway lol, which they would, and the interview is supposed to flush out the ones who don't have it. I suppose the interviews aren't very successful.......hahaha. Truly, alot of people who end up in thinking positions, don't seem to have much of it. The corporate world is one big clusterfuck, from what I've seen.
 
Last edited:

Orangey

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The technique you described in the OP has two purposes:

(1) It is the same tactic used by a person about to buy a new car. The dealer wants to sell you something on the lot. If you have any brains, you will quickly assess what the dealer DOES have on the lot, and when the sales rep asks you what you are looking for, ask to test drive a model that they do not have as part of their inventory. If you want a red car with black leather interior, and they have one, you tell them that you want a blue car with white leather interior (since they don't have it, they will then be forced to start discounting/offering "incentives" (cash back, better financing, etc.) to compel you to purchase out of their inventory.

When corporations do this, they create a false sense of dissatisfaction on their part that "hardly any" of the job seekers in the labor market have *EXACTLY* the skill they want to hire for a given position, so they will tell candidates that are "almost qualified" that they will *DO THEM a FAVOR* and hire them in as a "growth opportunity* but at a lower salary than what is asked for by the interviewee, because they are not "exactly what the employer was looking for." It's a smoke and mirrors game.

(2) Even if employers found the EXACT blend of both top-notch skill/expertise AND social/emotional intelligence it wouldn't do them much good because more likely than not that company's organization culture and organizational design are not ready to utilize multi-talented/skilled staff.

For instance, for years employers have been beating their chests that they want workers who (a) Think "Out of the Box", (b) Have "Natural Leadership Skills", and (c) are willing to "Wear Many Hats" as rapidly changing business needs require.

BULLSHIT. I exhibit all of the traits above (a, b, and c) and no employer I've worked for in the past 9 years has allowed me to fully utilize my natural skill set along with my education/work experience to create new efficiencies and make significant improvements to the way things have always been done.

It's double speak.

If you want to realize your full potential in the job markett create your own work, and don't limit yourself with the antiquated precedents of other people's dysfunctional companies/organizations.

:solidarity:

-Alex

Exactly. Great post.
 

ICUP

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So, 1) You think that every corporation who ever places an ad, is playing smoke-and-mirror games?
2) Every company's culture and organizational design are not ready to utilize multi-talented/skilled staff? I agree that it can be a waiting game, but there are positions available right now, for people with the right skillsets.
3) You think that XSTP's have natural leadership skills? Because they most certainly do not, imo. There are types who are interpersonally and socially-gifted, and that's what I consider a natural leader, in a corporate capacity.
 

Halla74

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<...Noise...>

A few weeks ago you told me that I was on your ignore list. :holy:
Looks like you took me off. :dry:
I'm not going to waste my time and compromise the joy of posting here by interacting with you. :violin:
In my opinion, your demeanor is close minded and irritating. :azdaja:
I've also noticed that you never seem to write anything that's informative or enlightening with regard to what your opinion is. :nono:

You typically respond to other people's posts/replies with critical whining that is highly subjective and devoid of significant factual material. :thumbdown:
Any fool can criticize the work of others, you've mastered that trick. :doh:
Now go and try to write something of your own, I'm sure you'll get the hang of it at some point. :whistling:

Until then, don't bother responding to anything I write here.
You do not exist as far as I am concerned.

:sick: <----Me when I read your posts

Thanks,

-Alex
 
A

Anew Leaf

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So, 1) You think that every corporation who ever places an ad, is playing smoke-and-mirror games?
2) Every company's culture and organizational design are not ready to utilize multi-talented/skilled staff? I agree that it can be a waiting game, but there are positions available right now, for people with the right skillsets.
3) You think that XSTP's have natural leadership skills? Because they most certainly do not, imo. There are types who are interpersonally and socially-gifted, and that's what I consider a natural leader, in a corporate capacity.

In regards to 3- I am completely confused. Where in [MENTION=6109]Halla74[/MENTION]'s post did he say that xstps have natural leadership skills? And where do you get that they don't?

I notice a pattern of you just simply not liking the stps who post on here based on the fact that they are STPs. That seems bizarre to me. It's one thing to dislike another poster because you don't like what they have to say, but this seems to be an automatic checklist of "are they an STP? Ok I dislike them."

P.s. Leave mah big brothah alone! *gets out grrrr face*
 

ICUP

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In regards to 3- I am completely confused. Where in [MENTION=6109]Halla74[/MENTION]'s post did he say that xstps have natural leadership skills? And where do you get that they don't?

I notice a pattern of you just simply not liking the stps who post on here based on the fact that they are STPs.

That seems bizarre to me. It's one thing to dislike another poster because you don't like what they have to say, but this seems to be an automatic checklist of "are they an STP? Ok I dislike them."

Where did you get this idea? I generally don't like stp guys, but I don't dislike someone because they are an stp guy. I give everyone an equal chance, regardless of who they are. Are you stirring up drama? LoL. I don't see why any of this has anything to do with you. It really doesn't.

I was responding to Orangey. Notice I posted AFTER Orangey, and didn't write a name there. Orangey had quoted Halla, and I was wondering if she agreed with those parts. I won't do that again, as I don't want to stir up drama.
 
A

Anew Leaf

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Where did you get this idea? I generally don't like stp guys, but I don't dislike someone because they are an stp guy. I give everyone an equal chance, regardless of who they are. Are you stirring up drama? LoL.

Because lately I see a lot of posts from you stating how annoying you find STP men. And I've seen you "get into it" with a few of them as well.

I'm not sure why you are accusing me of starting drama.
 

ICUP

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Because lately I see a lot of posts from you stating how annoying you find STP men. And I've seen you "get into it" with a few of them as well.

I'm not sure why you are accusing me of starting drama.

ALOT of posts stating how annoying I find STP men? From what I recall, I said it ONCE. Because you are getting involved in situations that have absolutely nothing to do with YOU..... that's what "stirring drama" is.
 
A

Anew Leaf

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ALOT of posts stating how annoying I find STP men? From what I recall, I said it ONCE. Because you are getting involved in situations that have absolutely nothing to do with YOU..... that's what "stirring drama" is.

This was a general thread with a question asked by giggly. Several people responded to her post. You responded personally to a post made by [MENTION=6109]Halla74[/MENTION] that made no sense. I was primarily responding to how confusing your post was, then I made a comment about a current pattern of posting that you are exhibiting. That's it.

If you feel drama is being stirred up then perhaps you should look at how people respond to you.
 

ICUP

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This was a general thread with a question asked by giggly. Several people responded to her post. You responded personally to a post made by [MENTION=6109]Halla74[/MENTION] that made no sense. I was primarily responding to how confusing your post was, then I made a comment about a current pattern of posting that you are exhibiting. That's it.

If you feel drama is being stirred up then perhaps you should look at how people respond to you.

I would prefer if this conversation ended, as I hate drama. Thank You.
 

Orangey

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So, 1) You think that every corporation who ever places an ad, is playing smoke-and-mirror games?

Most of them. It's a good way of negotiating someone's salary down, which they always have an interest in doing.

2) Every company's culture and organizational design are not ready to utilize multi-talented/skilled staff? I agree that it can be a waiting game, but there are positions available right now, for people with the right skillsets.

I'd say for the most part, no. A job is always going to be more limiting than they make it sound in ads, and often, they're really only looking for someone who can do what they're told. The only way to escape this is if you worked for yourself.

3) You think that XSTP's have natural leadership skills? Because they most certainly do not, imo. There are types who are interpersonally and socially-gifted, and that's what I consider a natural leader, in a corporate capacity.[/QUOTE]

What the hell are you talking about? ESTPs especially are supposed to have great leadership skills.
 

ICUP

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Most of them. It's a good way of negotiating someone's salary down, which they always have an interest in doing.

I think some might be, but plenty just want people with those skills, which is why they place the ads. Some people are being recruited by headhunters from other companies, and offered big bucks to move to their company.
3) You think that XSTP's have natural leadership skills? Because they most certainly do not, imo. There are types who are interpersonally and socially-gifted, and that's what I consider a natural leader, in a corporate capacity.

What the hell are you talking about? ESTPs especially are supposed to have great leadership skills.

A natural leader in a corporate capacity is what they are describing in the article Giggly posted. I don't consider STP's to have all of these skills, naturally. At least, none that I have ever seen, and they don't fit the definition for it. There are some types that are naturally interpersonally gifted, and it's pretty specific, as in, the right instinctual-variant combination, with the right type, with the right enneagram type. It's a completely different situation, and one in where the individual is meant to manage people. I don't consider STP's to be that. I think STP's can be leaders, but they aren't natural leaders, when it comes to a corporate role.
 

Lark

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How do you assess emotional and social intelligence? I'm just interested because if they put something like that in a job description without having some clear criteria then it just sounds like a vague clause to be used to exclude otherwise qualified candidates from interview or appointment.

I know that the police used to do some good role plays as part of their recruitment for training here in NI and I thought that was a good idea. I usually fail those sorts of things but still it would exclude a lot of people besides me who I think its probably a good thing are excluded from possible recruitment to the police service.
 
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