The cheap state school or the expensive ivy?

[onemoretime]

What do you want to study? What sort of career do you see yourself in?

 

[INTPness]

What do you want to study? What sort of career do you see yourself in?

She dun like to tell you.

 

[mujigay]

Hmmmm, am I being too secretive about my intended major(s)?

I have toured both A&M College Station and UT Austin, and for some inexplicable reason, I HATED A&M. Practically speaking, it might've been the perfect school. It's cheap, it's decent, and it's a little more than an hour away from where I live, but I just didn't like it. Maybe it sounds a little wish-washy and new age-ish, but when I was there for an extracurricular program (I stayed on campus for a period time) I just didn't get the right vibes.

UT Austin, on the other hand, I actually liked quite a bit. Granted, I wasn't actually in Austin for academic reasons (SXSW!), but the campus vibe in general felt more comfortable to me when I visited. Something always in the back of my mind, though, is that if I go to UT, I will be with the exact same crowd of people I went to high school with. It's said among certain circles that UT Austin is pretty much a miniature of my high school, anyone who doesn't go Ivy or international goes there. Not that I mind, really, or that it's a huge concern, but it's another tiny negative added to the scale.

I think some people have pointed out that I'm strangely limiting my choices to two schools, but like my OP said, I'm planning to apply to seven. Columbia and UT are just the most attractive choices atm (I suppose location/ranking of my intended school of study and cost-effectiveness/comfort, respectively). Brown is figuring prominently into my considerations at the moment...but, it's just as pricey as Columbia, so that's a whole other issue in itself.

 

[onemoretime]

Hmmmm, am I being too secretive about my intended major(s)?

There are some fields where UT would be just fine (for example, anything in the petroleum industry, or within the state of Texas). In other, if not most, fields, the Ivy League degree will absolutely provide a substantial advantage compared to alternatives. It's terribly unfair, but there are doors available to you as a Columbia grad that simply aren't there for a graduate of a state U, particularly in this day and age.

There's something important to note here - you don't go to college to get an education. An education might be a nice byproduct, but the reason you (assuming you're middle class) go to a university in the United States is to secure a signifier of elevated social class, or, when we're euphemizing it, that a person "has what it takes" to make it in a certain field.

Just something to keep in mind.

 

[Rail Tracer]

Hmmmm, am I being too secretive about my intended major(s)?

I have toured both A&M College Station and UT Austin, and for some inexplicable reason, I HATED A&M. Practically speaking, it might've been the perfect school. It's cheap, it's decent, and it's a little more than an hour away from where I live, but I just didn't like it. Maybe it sounds a little wish-washy and new age-ish, but when I was there for an extracurricular program (I stayed on campus for a period time) I just didn't get the right vibes.

UT Austin, on the other hand, I actually liked quite a bit. Granted, I wasn't actually in Austin for academic reasons (SXSW!), but the campus vibe in general felt more comfortable to me when I visited. Something always in the back of my mind, though, is that if I go to UT, I will be with the exact same crowd of people I went to high school with. It's said among certain circles that UT Austin is pretty much a miniature of my high school, anyone who doesn't go Ivy or international goes there. Not that I mind, really, or that it's a huge concern, but it's another tiny negative added to the scale.

I think some people have pointed out that I'm strangely limiting my choices to two schools, but like my OP said, I'm planning to apply to seven. Columbia and UT are just the most attractive choices atm (I suppose location/ranking of my intended school of study and cost-effectiveness/comfort, respectively). Brown is figuring prominently into my considerations at the moment...but, it's just as pricey as Columbia, so that's a whole other issue in itself.

If you don't like your high school friends/classmates, you don't have to bother interacting with them

I knew my community college and 4 year college that I was heading to was going to be filled with people I know from high school. I mean, I was quite sure everyone else was thinking like I was thinking (first two years paying almost nothing, and transfer to another college for the remainder.)

People I didn't like, I didn't have to interact with them. People I do like? I see them around campus nowadays.

The college I went to have a pretty nice Computer Science and Engineering department (often getting funds from public and private companies) as well as a pretty competitive nursing program and graphic design program. So, like onemoretime said, it also depends on the degree that you want. Some programs at one college aren't as great as another from another college. And it can turn into something like comparing San Jose State to something like Chico State or even CalPoly. Which each have a slightly different emphasis. Some colleges tend to either teach in a more abstract way while others try to teach in a more practical approach. Hell, I might have actually attended Chico State instead (even if it was a party college...) if I knew I was going the route I am currently taking.

But enough of comparing colleges that you might not even know of

 

[CzeCze]

If you want progressive and out there (you mentioned 'new-agey' and SXSW), go to Brown or Wesleyan, don't even bother with Columbia. BOOOORING. Unless you secretly just wanna run around NYC raising hell. In which case, there are much cheaper schools in NYC.

My school was a college not university and I would say it has a really strong alumna network, especially in certain cities, comes in handy if you wanna use it. So, it is a factor.

But, it is true, in your long range goals you wanna aim higher. Your last alma mater is most important in terms of networking and prestige and also training/education. Going to a cheaper maybe less prestigious state school then going to an Ivy for grad school looks better (yes, we're all snobs) and looks like a better investment of time, money, and studying than the reverse - going to an expensive prestigious undergrad but then a cheaper, less prestigious state school for grad school.

 

[Coriolis]

I applied to 5 colleges, including the one my parents both attended, and one Ivy League. In the end, the ivy league was the only one I could comfortably afford because the financial aid was so much more generous. I graduated with $10K of loans. It was also the case that one could withdraw after early decision for financial reasons.

 

[Venom]

I'm gearing up for college applications (yes, it's a bit early to most, but in my mind, it's never too early) and I'm caught in a bit of dilemma.

I'm applying to seven schools, actually, but the top two are the University of Texas and Columbia University. I have a pretty fantastic transcript, not to brag, and I'm about 80% certain that if I apply to Columbia early decision, I'll get in (for Ivy Leagues, applying early decision is pretty much the only way to get in, unless you've got some kind of gob-smacking application), but if I do that, I lock myself into that school. Furthermore, I'm not sure what kind of financial aid I'll be getting, and as I'm sure most of you know...it's not cheap to go there.

If I go to the University of Texas at Austin, I'm pretty much guaranteed to get in, and it'll be practically free. My father was in the military, and state scholarships for children of veterans combined with academic awards I've picked up would make it very, VERY, cheap to go. However, I've been desperate to get out of Texas, and the thought of another four years here kind of weighs me down.

Advice?

UT is an awesome school! Seriously. GO THERE. I'd put UT as like "a Michigan" tier. No one will ever scoff at your school, and it will certainly be a "good school". Avoiding debt is the first step to getting ahead in life. DEBT IS HORRIBLE! The only reason I'd EVER go to an ivy is if I wanted to get a wallstreet job. They are some of the most fickle people ON EARTH. Besides them, UT will be plenty good for anything.

 

[Octarine]

Depends what you are planning on studying. Law for example, I'd recommend the Ivy. Science not so much.

 

[A window to the soul]

There are some fields where UT would be just fine (for example, anything in the petroleum industry, or within the state of Texas). In other, if not most, fields, the Ivy League degree will absolutely provide a substantial advantage compared to alternatives. It's terribly unfair, but there are doors available to you as a Columbia grad that simply aren't there for a graduate of a state U, particularly in this day and age.

There's something important to note here - you don't go to college to get an education. An education might be a nice byproduct, but the reason you (assuming you're middle class) go to a university in the United States is to secure a signifier of elevated social class, or, when we're euphemizing it, that a person "has what it takes" to make it in a certain field.

Just something to keep in mind.

How old are you? This is one of those rare moments I disagree with you on all points. Your response seems to be based on logical conclusions, but lacks real world experience.

 

[mmhmm]

Depends what you are planning on studying. Law for example, I'd recommend the Ivy. Science not so much.

(correct me if i'm wrong) but i think the us is one
of the few countries in the world that you can't go
directly into Law or Medicine as an undergraduate.

so there's no such degree as LLB.

they have pre-law and pre-med.
and law/med school for the postgraduate

 

[onemoretime]

How old are you? This is one of those rare moments I disagree with you on all points. Your response seems to be based on logical conclusions, but lacks real world experience.

Mid-20s. Also, I live in the middle of the Northeast, so I get to see this kind of crap every day.

 

[mmhmm]

I'd put UT as like "a Michigan" tier.

no. not ann arbor. if UT's 10% auto admit
is scrapped... still, no. UNC Chapel Hill would
be more competitive to Ann Arbor based on
selectivity.

basically in this scenario, no university is
$150k better than UT if money's the first
main concern, and it probably is since a
thread was started.

of course if money isn't the biggest issue
and you have the means and believe in your
potential enough where $150k is insignificant,
in which case Columbia or any other school
may be worth the $150k over UT.

but to put it in perspective, my cousin just
finished her undergrad this year from MIT,
and landed a job in chicago which gave her a
summer stipend of $26,000

so again, depends on your major and field of
interest. and whether or not the industry you
want to go in to pays that.

No one will ever scoff at your school, and it will certainly be a "good school".

depends if you ever plan to leave texas...
there's a much bigger world out there.
and if you care to factor in international
perception of the school you went to.

there are still parts of the world, emerging
markets that still give 'brand value' to the
school you went to, allowing you to leverage
off the institution's name. how right or
wrong or silly it is, i don't really care, but
it still does exist. the old boys network
is still strong in parts of the world too.

 

[INTPness]

no. not ann arbor. if UT's 10% auto admit
is scrapped... still, no. UNC Chapel Hill would
be more competitive to Ann Arbor based on
selectivity.

Forget selectivity. In terms of quality of education and overall reputation, UT is definitely on par with Michigan. They are right in that same general "tier". Both very good state schools (Cal, Michigan, Texas, etc.). UT is pretty top notch. I'm not saying it's an Ivy, but it's a very good school.

 

[Aquarelle]

State school.

 

[onemoretime]

As far as state schools go, UC-Berkeley, UCLA and UM-Ann Arbor are in a tier of their own. UNC-Chapel Hill is almost on that level, but suffers a bit because of how much more highly nearby Duke is ranked. UT's not anywhere near that level, but it has its own ancillary benefits that arise from being the flagship university of the second-most populated state in the US.

 

[cascadeco]

At least back in the day (lol) when I went to school, a lot of the state schools rated quite highly in many programs. Since I as in the midwest at the time, and was also looking at engineering programs, I was mostly paying attention to the Big 10. University of WI at Madison, University of IL at Champaign-Urbana, and so on. Many were quite good as far as national ratings were concerned, and also viewed quite highly by employers in those fields.

And, at the time, U of IL (where I went) was in the top 10 for most engineering disciplines, if not top 3/5 ... beating out the Ivy leagues in many instances (in fact Ivy leagues, aside from MIT and maybe one other, weren't even in the running - it was predominantly state schools, led by UC Berkeley). Same went for certain other programs, although since I wasn't applying for those, I didn't pay attention to those ratings.

Even Illinois State University was well-known for its teaching/education program at the time. And, I think Speech Therapy too? (although I might be pulling that out of my butt, I don't know )

I guess I'm of the opinion that a good state school can match/top the Ivy leagues in most programs. Not all, of course, but most. Ivy leagues appear to just be the prestige factor, and also the whole networking thing (tied to perceived prestige). Again, only in some programs.

 

[skylights]

In other, if not most, fields, the Ivy League degree will absolutely provide a substantial advantage compared to alternatives. It's terribly unfair, but there are doors available to you as a Columbia grad that simply aren't there for a graduate of a state U, particularly in this day and age.

i don't agree with this, really. not as an undergraduate. if we are talking graduate school, medical school, law school, etc., than yes, but to be honest, as an undergraduate i don't think the name of your school matters nearly so much as what you did while you were there. if you're coming out of a state school with honors, publications, internships, awards, and connections, i think that's more significant than coming out of yale with a c transcript and little else.

But, it is true, in your long range goals you wanna aim higher. Your last alma mater is most important in terms of networking and prestige and also training/education. Going to a cheaper maybe less prestigious state school then going to an Ivy for grad school looks better (yes, we're all snobs) and looks like a better investment of time, money, and studying than the reverse - going to an expensive prestigious undergrad but then a cheaper, less prestigious state school for grad school.

yeah.

(correct me if i'm wrong) but i think the us is one
of the few countries in the world that you can't go
directly into Law or Medicine as an undergraduate.

so there's no such degree as LLB.

they have pre-law and pre-med.
and law/med school for the postgraduate

yes.

i have both lawyers and doctors in the close family, and was pre-med myself, and can vouch that many people are now advocating majoring in whatever the hell interests in undergrad you if you're set on pre-med or law anyway. besides the few requirements, med and law school will teach you everything you need to know - you do not need an undergrad major in chemistry to become a doctor. in fact, it even makes you more interesting and separates you from the pack if you are a japanese literature student and pre-med as well.

 

[onemoretime]

I guess I'm of the opinion that a good state school can match/top the Ivy leagues in most programs. Not all, of course, but most. Ivy leagues appear to just be the prestige factor, and also the whole networking thing (tied to perceived prestige).

I don't think anyone in their right mind will deny that you'll get just as high-quality of an education at a major state school as you will at an Ivy. After all, the information is the information, no matter whether you receive it in Cambridge, Mass. or Butte, Mt. It's possible to get an Ivy League education for free, provided you have access to a computer and an internet connection. As I mentioned, though, you don't go to an Ivy League school for the quality of information, or if you are, you're not going there for the right reasons.

Therefore, if you're going into the hard sciences, the decision is a simple one - you go to the university where they have the most intensive program that focuses on the sorts of questions that makes you the most excited. So, if you're into meteorology, you go to a school like Penn State, or the University of Oklahoma (my alma mater). If you're into experimental physics, do what you can to get to Berkeley. If you're into computing or theoretical physics, both Caltech and MIT are impressive options.

Outside of the hard sciences, I would argue that the long-term prestige and social benefits of going to an Ivy League school far outweigh possible short-term benefits, with a few caveats. If you want to study subjects like English or Philosophy, even though your degree will get you far, the costs are essentially prohibitive, and they're that way for a reason: going to school for four years to talk about the books they like and leave with a Harvard or Yale degree is a privilege of the upper-middle and the upper class, and we'd do well to remember that. Besides, all the more interesting discussions are held elsewhere; Ivy League schools are far too Establishment.

For business or government/political science, there is no reason whatsoever one should choose a non-Ivy over an Ivy. The prestige and connections make careers.

 

[onemoretime]

i don't agree with this, really. not as an undergraduate. if we are talking graduate school, medical school, law school, etc., than yes, but to be honest, as an undergraduate i don't think the name of your school matters nearly so much as what you did while you were there. if you're coming out of a state school with honors, publications, internships, awards, and connections, i think that's more significant than coming out of yale with a c transcript and little else.

As far as I understand it, it's the complete opposite: the prestige bonus is almost entirely conferred upon undergraduates, and much attenuated for grad students. Even for those on a professorial track, the Ivy League bonus comes less from the prestige of the institution itself, than from the types of projects and research you are exposed to, not to mention the available financial resources. After a certain level, though, you start running into prestige barriers, especially when it comes to things like funding one's own projects. That's not nearly as much of a problem for the undergrads, provided that they developed a robust social network.

After all, two of the richest men on the planet are Harvard dropouts.