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  1. #31
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Your opinion, I accept that. I think the whole theory around functions and such does limit your perception towards other things, cause at some point you are starting to explain everything with those functions. It's like if you run a company and concentrate only on having the best product on the market, totally loosing the sense for innovation.

    I do think very systematically, things like function theory or any personality stuff of these sorts have the effect on me that I start to order everything in my real world into this set of "natural laws of humanity" to form a working model. Not until it is a working model I can accept it. I havent run into discrepancies using function theory, on the contrary you can explain quite everything with mbti or the function model. The only problem is, noone understands what I am saying cause in Germany like maybe .5 % of the population ever heard about mbti. Therefore I learnt that I have to develop my own ways to describe my perception like everybody else, understandable for everybody else. Without doing so, people would think of me nowadays that I am a nutjob and I wouldnt get the respect I'ld like to get from people.

    So you see, by living in a culture in which there is virtually no intrest so far for mbti or even something similiar to it ( pretty much every theory lands sooner or later in the astrology sector ), you have to choose a completly different approach and strategy to things. That's what I meant with mbti isnt the answer on the quest for self.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Your opinion, I accept that. I think the whole theory around functions and such does limit your perception towards other things, cause at some point you are starting to explain everything with those functions. It's like if you run a company and concentrate only on having the best product on the market, totally loosing the sense for innovation.

    I do think very systematically, things like function theory or any personality stuff of these sorts have the effect on me that I start to order everything in my real world into this set of "natural laws of humanity" to form a working model. Not until it is a working model I can accept it. I havent run into discrepancies using function theory, on the contrary you can explain quite everything with the mbti or the function model. The only problem is, noone understands what I am saying cause in Germany like maybe .5 % of the population ever heard about mbti. Therefore I learnt that I have to develop my own ways to describe my perception like everybody else, understandable for everybody else. Without doing so, people would think of me nowadays that I am a nutjob and I wouldnt get the respect I'ld like to get from people.

    So you see, by living in a culture in which there is virtually no intrest so far for mbti or even something similiar to it ( pretty much every theory lands sooner or later in the astrology sector ), you have to choose a completly different approach and strategy to things. That's what I meant with mbti isnt the answer on the quest for self.
    Everybody in America doesn't know about MBTI either. There are all sorts of facets to human nature. However, personality theory is a framework for understanding.

  3. #33
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Even the distinction between Feeler and Thinker types, many people where I come from would find ridicoulus because it does put peoples life into boxes.
    I'm not trying to bash your opinion, but I always have a hard time with referring to mbti as putting people into boxes. I had a friend that suggested something similarly. I just don't really view it that way. I honestly find it helpful in understanding people's essence's and true nature. Understanding is the key word for me. And I do believe it is useful in counseling relationships as well. I've found that the relationship theories are fairly accurate, and so this tool could prove to be quite productive in couples disputes and etc.

    However, I do agree that it can eventually lead to a closed outlook. I think there needs to be more focus on using it as a starting point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Everybody in America doesn't know about MBTI either. There are all sorts of facets to human nature. However, personality theory is a framework for understanding.
    Agreed.
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

  4. #34
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyAnnaJoan View Post
    I'm not trying to bash your opinion, but I always have a hard time with referring to mbti as putting people into boxes. I had a friend that suggested something similarly. I just don't really view it that way. I honestly find it helpful in understanding people's essence's and true nature. Understanding is the key word for me. And I do believe it is useful in counseling relationships as well. I've found that the relationship theories are fairly accurate, and so this tool could prove to be quite productive in couples disputes and etc.

    However, I do agree that it can eventually lead to a closed outlook. I think there needs to be more focus on using it as a starting point.
    I think the problem is bigger than that: you say that mbti does help you in understanding people's essences and true nature, but are you really 100% sure that what mbti shows you is people's true nature ?
    If you go to a deeply religious person, maybe you are deeply religious yourself and ask them if God exists they say yes and really believe in it. To them it is totally natural that God exists, like it is natural for us to believe mbti shows us our true nature. This doesnt mean tho that it's true.

    The greatest logical fallacy mbti does present and the most dangerous one at that is putting people into boxes. You'll find all over the forum people who dont feel neither like a T nor like a F for example. While us mbti user might think those people have trouble identifieing themselves, they are actually the sane people. Because they have learnt that an accomplished person needs to have the best of both worlds and that neither one nor another way is the only true one. It's the principle of Yin and Yang that will always be the right way with every decision you make, this's like a natural law.

    If you want you can ask Orangey once about her opinion about mbti. She has very clear and good insights and makes perfect sense. She's grown very alone lately cause this new found mbti sect has spit her out. Countless other members on the board have similiar problems, like for example if I am doing the mbti test it depends on my daily mood what I get as a result. Sometimes I am enfj, then intj then entp what is true ? People who say of themselves that they can tell the truth are the most dangerous imo. Cause how can you tell me more about myself than I would know ?

    I tell you, I trust my hunches and they tell me this whole mbti thing and function theory thing may be used as a starting point to get some ideas about people. But the real work which is getting to know people in long detailed conversations, you have to do yourself. If you run around the world and just type everyone according to how you feel, you are running a dangerous and unscientific profession.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  5. #35
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    I have this friend that's an ESTJ and her boyfriend is an ISFP. Majority of our group of friends and acquaintances are liberals. Except for my ESTJ friend. And though, in the past I used to get very upset with her points of view and do my best to at least acknowledge and be open to why me and my friends often see things the way that we do, she would constantly shoot things from the Te/Si point of view. Action must be made, and it must be made according to the way law and tradition says! We spit out things like compassion, and being there for your neighbor. She just goes, but that's not how it is, nor the way it should be--Capitalism! Etc. Her newer ISFP boyfriend is starting to see her as evil because of this. I used to think the same. Understanding her type however, I've become more understanding as to her point of view and much more tolerant.

    So, yes, I see merit in understanding people via mbti.

    But I agree, not everyone is completely limited to their type. Which is why these conversations of, "I'm more imaginative, or smarter than you because I'm an intuitive," or etc. really irritate me. Not everyone is limited, and everyone is capable of more or less than what their type is. I agree that type isn't the full story of every human being. It's just how we take in and process information. But when it comes to situations in which it's hard to peer through someone elses eyes, or difficult to step into someone elses shoes, that an understanding of mbti can be very helpful to try and put words or actions into understanding. Which then helps to grasp a picture of that person.

    Say a guy breaks up with a girl... and this girl has an extreme over-reaction to the breakup. Dips into drug use, binge drinking, sleeping around, etc. Everyone around asks, "why does this girl always take heartache so difficulty?" Ah! Fi-aux. So you can then move from there.
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

  6. #36
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I understand your point and I have experienced similiar understanding within my circle of friends. Mbti has infact made it easier in many situations in my life and nowadays leaves me with an idea about why some people behave like they do, as opposed to leaving me totally clueless.

    I dunno why I am so heavily fulminating against it from times, I gave it some thought and maybe it's a bit because I am frustrated cause at the end of the day mbti didnt give me all the answers I was looking for. When I first found it, I thought of it as being totally awesome and the final answer on my quest for self but in fact it has given me so many new fascades and insights about life that it has made my quest more complicated and nowadays I have even more questions than before. This the best explanation I have :/
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  7. #37
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    It is pretty easy to get certified-you take a 3-day long course. There are a few other folks on the forum also certified besides myself. Once you complete the course you are eligible to purchase and administer the MBTI tests. The cost of the course is expensive-about $1400.

    Most of the folks in my course were in the ministry actually as they commonly use it as a pre-marital counseling tool. We also had several HR folks and two ladies from a counseling background in the course.

    To turn it into a career you would need to get certified then find a place to apply it. My company uses DISC or Insights rather than MBTI as they are more simple for most people to understand. Once certified you can set up an online test site and then practice on a number of folks, then find a place to offer your services for free for awhile to build skill set-I have considered volentering at my son's high school for instance or perhaps offer your services at your church. the training organizations actually have coaches in your location who will routinely offer guidance as they like to see their trainees become succesful at applying the tool.

    The downside is that to be a real career you would likely need to couple it with an MS degree in counseling or dovetail into an HR career or perhaps training. Likely this depends on how good you are at networking and what other skill sets you can combine it with as a consultant.

    If you go to the CPP website you can also purchase a number of good MBTI and Jungian books for fairly low costs as well.
    Orobas,
    Do you have a Psych degree?
    I actually have a little plan for a niche market, and I feeling it could another bow to my personal arsena of potential income sources. I'm pretty well versed in a few personality indicator assesments already, but I would like official certification in these.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  8. #38
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrystalViolet View Post
    Orobas,
    Do you have a Psych degree?
    I actually have a little plan for a niche market, and I feeling it could another bow to my personal arsena of potential income sources. I'm pretty well versed in a few personality indicator assesments already, but I would like official certification in these.
    This cerification is a scam.

    And to pay for such certification is part of the scam.

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