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  1. #11
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Philosophers are generally pompous asses. The first philosophy professor I had in undergrad was a woman. She made my brain hurt.

  2. #12
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    Are we sure this is sexism and not general douchebaggery? That is, are the women treated differently by virtue of their sex, or is it because they act differently?
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  3. #13
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    Are we sure this is sexism and not general douchebaggery? That is, are the women treated differently by virtue of their sex, or is it because they act differently?
    If women acted differently as a group and were treated like shit for it, wouldn't that still be sexism?

    I get your point, though. For instance, in my department (which is not philosophy, BTW, so it's not limited to that discipline) the women who the male professors tended to run roughshod over were consistently of the "weak" type. That is, they actually believed that their adviser was there to be a shoulder to cry on (that's a BIG mistake) and they never stood their ground against the general assholery they experienced. They would never put people in their place as they ought, so male profs (like my adviser) tended to take advantage of their meekness. Not that students should have to be so defensive all the time, but it is the name of the game in a lot of places.

    The thing that made it sexism, though, was that this never happened to male grad students, no matter how aggressive or not aggressive they were.
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  4. #14
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    The blog is a interesting read - I went though a couple pages. I did notice that

    1) not all experiences were negative/biased
    2) some of the comments seem like they may be attributing sexism when it's really more personal, particularly when you're one of the few women in a class, how do you know it's your gender vs. the prof genuinely disliking you personally?
    3) some of the reports do seem to show clear bias
    4) some departments/schools are particularly bad, which could imply a number of things

    I'm happy to say that I haven't experienced bias in my graduate program (science) - maybe because the majority of students at my level are female. The bias seems to happen mostly later in the career (after the degree), and is especially (but not only) associated with having children.
    -end of thread-

  5. #15
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    The blog is a interesting read - I went though a couple pages. I did notice that

    1) not all experiences were negative/biased
    2) some of the comments seem like they may be attributing sexism when it's really more personal, particularly when you're one of the few women in a class, how do you know it's your gender vs. the prof genuinely disliking you personally?
    3) some of the reports do seem to show clear bias
    4) some departments/schools are particularly bad, which could imply a number of things

    I'm happy to say that I haven't experienced bias in my graduate program (science) - maybe because the majority of students at my level are female. The bias seems to happen mostly later in the career (after the degree), and is especially (but not only) associated with having children.
    Yes, some of the stuff on the blog doesn't seem to clearly demonstrate bias. For instance, there was one guy complaining about some off-hand comment Žižek made in an interview, which went something like, "philosophy is like a woman; you don't understand it but you can't live without it." Aside from being banal and probably in poor taste, I don't see what the big deal is about that kind of thing.

    My department, though, had a history of sexual harassment and sexism (which I was not aware of going in). The year I started, they had just gotten rid of a couple of male profs for sleeping with multiple female grad students and hired two new (black) females as a form of reparation (in addition to arbitrarily making the only previous female faculty member the new chair...and she was the first in the history of the department.) Beginning with my year, they also started taking more female grad students (I always thought it was weird that, for a humanities discipline, it was majority male.) It was a fucking mess.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  6. #16
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Actually my time in grad school was exceptionally free of sexist behaviors. There was this one creep who would check out the female students, but not out of proportion to creepy people in the general population.

    I had a male adviser and worked with many really awesome male professors. Even as an undergrad I had several really awesome male project advisers. This isnt to say that what the OP and the blog were saying is untrue, actually I suspect the field I was in made most of the difference. It was chemistry/biochemistry/biophysics/molecular biology where about 60% of the students are female, thus gender just wasnt an issue after awhile.

    I knew several female physicists and even a math major and I dont recall them being singled out or complaining about sexual harrassment either, although the number is too small to be definitive.

    Hehe, I did have one friend who got hit on by her EE adviser, but then they started having an affair, so I guess it wasnt exactly uninvited... She seemed to like him quite a bit.

    I have heard architecture is a total bitch though, and women are treated rather poorly there, but again that is just word of mouth, so I dunno..

  7. #17
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Its insidiousness is the most dangerous part, though.

    I'm sure the military is a bitch about it, but at least you know what you're up against. Not that it makes it any better.
    Yeah, I suppose I didnt think of it like that. Something like philosophy should SCREAM "different from the rest of society", but the more I hear, the more I think it only means "Pompous and finding rationale for the way society currently thinks.."

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    This definitely happens in the academy, but especially in philosophy. I'm not sure why philosophy attracts so many males of the arrogant douchebag variety, but I have witnessed it myself. And the attitude spreads to the undergrads, as well.
    Philosophy sounds so haughty to me in the first place.. My friend quickly lost interest when he got in the field, even though he's always had an interest in the subject itself. The actual classes turned him off to it all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blank View Post
    I'm a member of my campus' Philosophy Club and while there are a considerate number of women who attend, few speak up very often, which I find saddening. I actually find it saddening when people keep to themselves in an open forum, because I like to hear from as many perspectives as possible, but there is a trend for women to not speak up in a group setting. I've read some articles about things like this, particularly how young girls and boys are socialized and how it affects their academic roles, and I'd like the trend to change.

    Scarcely do I find something more attractive than an intelligent woman, and to think they're being pushed away and told to shut up! D;
    You know, I do find it funny that men always say they want smart, intelligent women.. and then everything in society pushes women away from that persona. Maybe one day..

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    Are we sure this is sexism and not general douchebaggery? That is, are the women treated differently by virtue of their sex, or is it because they act differently?
    I think the main point is that there are women of all varieties. Even if 20% of the blog's posts were genuine forms of sexism vs. personal dislike.. that's a particularly high number. The fact they need a blog at all is pretty dreadful. Coming from all over the country? Even worse. The odds are stacked on sexism.. And while I am sure some women DO act differently.. we are all encouraged to 'act' certain ways whether we like it or not in school. "Participate, or I will deduct points!" "Don't ask questions during discussions." etc. So if someone was merely quiet, I think the professor could fix that if s/he wanted to.
    If I were in a class setting, as one story went, and I was 'shut-down' everytime I talked, even though others were talking.. or if my 'ideas' were ignored, while others expressing the same ones were rewarded. I couldn't help but think sexism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    I'm happy to say that I haven't experienced bias in my graduate program (science) - maybe because the majority of students at my level are female. The bias seems to happen mostly later in the career (after the degree), and is especially (but not only) associated with having children.
    I think science is a bad example.. Science degrees also lead to medical fields.. which women have been working in for .like..forever now. But yeah, the bias seems to still be there after graduation..

    One time, my sister was asked during an interview "Do you plan on having children in the near future?" I cannot BELIEVE my sister didn't rage-quit right there. How personal is that?! and it shouldn't MATTER when applying for a job!

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Yes, some of the stuff on the blog doesn't seem to clearly demonstrate bias. For instance, there was one guy complaining about some off-hand comment Žižek made in an interview, which went something like, "philosophy is like a woman; you don't understand it but you can't live without it." Aside from being banal and probably in poor taste, I don't see what the big deal is about that kind of thing.

    My department, though, had a history of sexual harassment and sexism (which I was not aware of going in). The year I started, they had just gotten rid of a couple of male profs for sleeping with multiple female grad students and hired two new (black) females as a form of reparation (in addition to arbitrarily making the only previous female faculty member the new chair...and she was the first in the history of the department.) Beginning with my year, they also started taking more female grad students (I always thought it was weird that, for a humanities discipline, it was majority male.) It was a fucking mess.
    I could see that being distasteful in philosophy in paricular.. While it IS a mentality held by society, making subtle hints to things like that just promote a false sense of 'truth' to me. Even so, I can take a joke for what it is.. I don't see much problem with it. If it WAS purely a joke. Those half-jokes of "Hahah I say it because people find it funny--..but really.." are another story.

    Sorry to hear you're stuck in a mess. Sometimes, the only thing worse than sexism is the overly sexist way of 'apologizing' for sexism. Instead of just fixing the problem, they try to overcompensate for the problem being there in the first place. Our commander of our company is a great example of that -- incompetent in every way, but she was female and fit the bill for the whole 'SEE WE'RE NOT SEXIST I SWEAR!!" apology. We're still suffering for that mess.
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  8. #18
    The Eighth Colour Octarine's Avatar
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    What is the reason for the sexism though? Egotism combined with poor social skills?

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