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  1. #31
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Yea, people dont know what they are imposing on themselves and on their children if they start making such a challenge out of academia, but it's nothing new. I personally think an entp is clever enough to stay out of such childish fights and is able to see the wider variety of opinions there is apart from University. In a functioning society you need everybody from the hands-down craftsmen to the flighty philosopher and tho some jobs require more painstaking effort to achieve, it's no reason for why they are worth more. If you start thinking like that you aint different from the nazis.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegorystory View Post
    Ok, gotcha. So are you implying that electrical engineering is less people-oriented than, say, mechanical? This is a genuine question, by the way. I have no idea.
    I think it does depend on the company you work for, but that has been true in my experience. I have worked in both fields. As a ME, I did a lot of project management and supervisory type tasks. I also did CAD modeling, structural design and finite element analysis. I found it to be quite mundane after a couple of years.

    As an EE, I did software development, regulatory project management, and hardware design. I like the fact that it's a continuous learning process to avoid obsolescence. I think there's more opportunity for innovation in this field, but much of the designs are simple implementations with little need for creativity also.

    You should join a local engineering association and ask several engineers to show you what they actually do. It might help you decide.

  3. #33
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    My secret passion is EE aswell, been building circuits long before I started with the lego blocks . Yet ME is a way better door-opener where I come from, so more than a hobby EE prolly will never be for me :/
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  4. #34
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegorystory View Post
    I just want to make stuff. Cool stuff. Help innovate. Be challenged. But so far I've run into a lot of prejudices against engineering in the "academic world." People tell me "engineers are assholes" "engineers are stupid" "engineers are just failed physicists." Doesn't seem right. Theoretical physics is way interesting, but who are you kidding? You're not going to be the next Feynman.
    Such academic prejudice is rubbish, and I really haven't seen much of it in my career. The fact is, however, that there are many more engineers in (U.S.) society than physicists. Few of the physicists will win the Nobel Prize or any similar notoriety. And many if not most of the engineers will be implementing established practices in the design and creation of practical structures/devices. This is worthwhile and can be quite satisfying, but it is not innovation, not pushing the envelope of design and possibility.

    My SO is an engineer, and this has been his experience. He lucked out in getting a job early on involving oversight of the development of a major system. This means he gets a hand in every portion, and every aspect of development. Nearly all of his classmates, however, ended up in jobs where they basically implemented the design for some tiny cog of the larger system.

    I am not saying this to discourage you; quite the contrary. Engineering is every bit as worthwhile, challenging, and fulfilling as science (or many other fields). I am mainly pointing out that all engineering jobs, even within the same discipline, are not equal. If you are interested in doing real innovation and seeing the big design picture, there are probably ways you can steer yourself toward that, in your academic choices and beyond.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  5. #35
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Well it's not rubbish just because you havent seen it. There are different Universities all over the country and different viewings of society on things. Where I come from you are marked as highly intelligent when you are a studied doctor and earn no reputation when you are a studied engineer. That most medicine students dont finish their degree here because they fail at the physicist exam (which is the only thing you need to have skill for, the rest is rote learning), nobody knows.

    What you are proposing is of course fact with everything in the free economics. If you are working for a University as a physicist, as a lab rat you prolly have the greatest innovations before you. Yet I doubt that 10 years of tedious work on a project in University is what an entp would like. Even if it was 15 projects in only 1 year I still doubt it, cause somehow the University hasnt got this open-ended world feeling real travel and living in the world has. You still somehow feel confined or nerdy when working at University. It somehow feels better when you are more connected to the real world allday problems
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  6. #36
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    By calling something "rubbish" I am not denying its existence, but rather indicating it is a hurtful and counterproductive perspective. I am sure it exists in some environments, perhaps academia, and I have seen biases concerning other fields (business, law, etc). I have worked professionally for over 10 years, though, and do not see much of it in this environment. In my organization, physicists, engineers, computer people, chemists, etc. etc. with varying levels of education and experience all work together. Your academic discipline and to some extent your educational level are viewed as less important than what your ideas are and what you can accomplish. Yes, this may simply be a distinction between academia and "the real world".
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  7. #37
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    Nailed it!

    Creativity in engineering is a perk than a must-have.

    I'm studying computer engineeeirng right now and man creativity is the last thing they want you to have in an undergraduate degree. Yes, you learn how stuff works and how to make it work but every field has established best practices. You're taught these best practices as a replacement for creativity. Creativity in engineering is not even approached till post grad.

    But that aint me. I'm more creative than a gay dude in pink. That is why I'm taking a year off and going to do design/startup. Design often involves the question of WHY and HOW. Plus it involves making stuff that people use. Engineering is more focused towards the background machinery that lies under the hood and people don't see/interact with too often. I love making things work, but I absolutely need a creative outlet where people can interact with what I am building. SO I am thinking of design - Industrial Design or Human-Computer Interaction - yes, these are real fields...think of the cool machine at the science center whose inner workings are still somewhat of a mystery to you.

    I basically just want to invent stuff

  8. #38
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    I think what I want from a career is integrative thinking (google it - some unis are offering entire degrees in this now). Fields that have this:

    -Systems engineer (engineer that does a bit of everything...most important in systems)
    -Business guru - business world is so volatile, noone knows what will happen next
    -Startups - doing everything at once
    -Marketing - worry about how people perceive things
    -Designers - invent stuff to guide human perception
    -Architects (engineers that design complex systems)

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by thisGuy View Post
    I love making things work, but I absolutely need a creative outlet where people can interact with what I am building.
    From your description,I don't think you are actually looking for creativity. You are looking for jobs that involve social relevance.

    While it is very important to choose a profession that you enjoy, it is also necessary to have realistic expectations about the type of work that is available. The fun stuff often don't get paid well. The well paid jobs involve a lot of activities that is not fun.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    From your description,I don't think you are actually looking for creativity. You are looking for jobs that involve social relevance.

    While it is very important to choose a profession that you enjoy, it is also necessary to have realistic expectations about the type of work that is available. The fun stuff often don't get paid well. The well paid jobs involve a lot of activities that is not fun.
    While being true, your observation is lacking in that I want to build things that people interact with. Human Interaction is not limited to me but, in theory, would extend to my creations.

    In this day and age, my expectations are not completely unrealistic. Google Human-Computer Interaction and then, separately, MIT Media Lab. Then maybe Disney Research and industrial design.

    thats the shit (and the final goal)!

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