how to crush someone's hopes and dreams in the nicest way possible?

[ThatGirl]

I just don't want to be the one who delivers the coup de grace since he said that I'm one of the 3 people in the office who he feels has his back

I've insinuated heavily that if he can't change he's going to have a lot of problems, but he doesn't seem to get it

Just because he thought it doesn't make you obligated to be that. That was an error and his misjudgment. Also, his knowing some people may have his back and others not, indicates at least some awareness of his not fitting in. Not to sound distrusting, but it very well could have been a manipulative tactic to gain resources for his side. Specially if that is what he succeeds from, with no real skills to back it.

Stop insinuating and just make it known. There is a problem. It cannot be denied. Do something or suffer the consequences.

That way, by the time you have to fire him, everyone knows and is accepting of why.

Idk, you sound like a caring person, but that could bite you in the ass, if you lose sight of what works best for the long run.

If you continue to get frustrated with this guy, you will have to become a nagging source to get him to fulfill his duty. This is going to make you both miserable, as well as everyone else who relies on him in his position. Give him an HONEST shot, and if he still cant preform, set him off knowing you tried.

 

[miss fortune]

I suggested he be sent out on his own for a couple of days for a sink or swin experiment... by now he's kind of an embarassing problem in a way... nobody wants to give up on him when he still has almost 4 full weeks left to acheive something, but nobody really sees it happening either. I am not the one who swings the axe though... just the one who suggests when swinging should be considered and who it should be swung towards

 

[ThatGirl]

Lol you're a scary woman....

Sounds like you have the situation under control. I hope you feel better about it, let what will be, be then.

 

[miss fortune]

yeah... I just guess that I wish that there could be some other way... where I didn't have to feel like I'm sending someone who put all their eggs into one basket onto a rollercoaster or something

 

[ThatGirl]

Yeah, that would have been telling him straight up and sticking to your guns, rather than sending him out to make a fool of himself.

Really, the whole point is whether he can do the job or not. You decide that or everyone decides that. You make him aware, or everyone makes him aware.

If he is already on probation and watched among a community, then it doesn't matter, he and everyone else will find out sooner or later.

 

[Qre:us]

I am quite surprised to hear myself say this to you, but, damn, TG, you were on point with every post in this whole thread.

Props! I enjoyed reading that.

*****

 

[wildcat]

I've been working on training a new guy who really has the right attitude to succeed but none of the skills... it's really frustrating because I've seen the opposite occur so many times, but this is new. The guy really has his hopes set on succeeding in this job to the point where he's basically built his life and squandered his money on it... and he quit another job that's less risky because he feels that this job is the answer to his prayers.

The problem is that he just doesn't have the abilities that are NEEDED to succeed in the job... to watch him happily wander along like a hopeful puppy, talking about how getting this job changed his life for the better just crushes my soul a little every time I see or think about it. I feel really guilty... to the point where I just wish he would disappear and I wouldn't have to figure out what to do about it and feel guilty about it anymore... which in turn makes me feel even more guilty for being such a moral coward about the whole thing

How do you let someone know that they just don't have the correct skills for their dream job?

And how do you do it without spitting in the face of a younger version of yourself?

What is wrong with his skills? Attitude is far more important than skills.
With right attitude, you eventually learn skills.
Why should you block his way? Leave him alone. He is young. He will be all right.

 

[Tamske]

I'm a bit hesitant here. In a lot of cases, the right attitude will get you to aquire the needed skills. But sometimes that's totally impossible. If you lack a hand, you can't be a pianist (except for Ravel's Concerto for the left hand).
Usually it's not that simple... You can't deny a lacking hand. But how to point out that someone isn't good enough at eg. abstract thinking? I took this example because I've hit my own limit there. I'm very good at abstract reasoning and at switching back and forth between abstract and concrete, between theory, example and experiment. People have confirmed this through my life. But string theory was one hurdle too far for me.

I'd say try to be both clear and reasonable. I know that's difficult. If it's about a skill that can be aquired, tell him this is the thing he has got to work on. Maybe you can also point out other, similar careers. Becoming a science teacher instead of an academic researcher cured some of the problems I had with research (too abstract, no interaction, no deadlines) while it's still about something which interests me (science).

Please don't just watch the disaster happening.
And please... if you told him but he just went ahead without listening, please don't tell "I told you so" afterwards. There's nothing more infuriating than that. Then you've got to be there to search new possibilities.

 

[wildcat]

Yeah, that would have been telling him straight up and sticking to your guns, rather than sending him out to make a fool of himself.

Really, the whole point is whether he can do the job or not. You decide that or everyone decides that. You make him aware, or everyone makes him aware.

If he is already on probation and watched among a community, then it doesn't matter, he and everyone else will find out sooner or later.

What you do you know about him?
Second hand gossip.
You have no right to judge.

 

[miss fortune]

What is wrong with his skills? Attitude is far more important than skills.
With right attitude, you eventually learn skills.
Why should you block his way? Leave him alone. He is young. He will be all right.

if he had an indefinite amount of time attitude may work... he only has a limited amount of time in his training period to show that he can do it or he gets fired. I have no say over that part at all

 

[Athenian200]

If I were you, I would just try to stay out of it if I could. At this point, there are other people watching him, and he's got a chance to perform or fail. So if he fails, he fails. It's not your responsibility, you did the best you could. When he gets fired, wish him well and tell him nothing.

You know why I say this? Because I don't believe it's impossible for him to learn the skills you're talking about. Granted, I don't think he can learn them as quickly as you need him to learn them, in the kind of environment he's in. But I find it difficult to believe that the skills you're talking about can never be learned. So it might be best for him to be allowed to fail here, but keep on trying at similar companies until he finally "gets it." If it's truly his dream, he should keep trying until he gets it right... in as many places as it takes.

The longer you allow him to keep trying and failing here, the better his skills will get, and the better chance he has of getting the next job like this one. Although, if you feel that your own job could be in jeopardy if you don't fire him expediently, then perhaps you should hurry and get rid of him. But if you don't have to have him fired immediately, you shouldn't.

 

[prplchknz]

there's no easy way to crush dreams. No matter how nice you try to be the other person will still be hurt. Especially if he's as hopeful as you say, you need to find away for him to look at himself objectively and hope that in that he'll realize he doesn't have the people skills, and can't learn in the time frame.

 

[Oberon]

I know! Let ThatGirl do it. She won't care.

 

[Noise]

Sounds like you aren't the right person to train him as you don't believe in him/don't have the skills or patience to train him. Send him on to someone else.

 

[Fluffywolf]

I'd have bummed him already if he doesn't have what it takes for the job and shows no signs of being capable of learning what it takes by himself.

Look, expecting all your employees to be perfect is an illusion. I have over 30 employees and almost none of them quite fit all my standards (two people actually do, which makes me so happy!) of what I would hope they'd be like, but all of them at least show enough promise to be useful and good enough in their line of work. In the end, we'd just have to be content with that, because the alternative of firing and hiring until you do get the people you want, give all of your employees a bad feeling and ultimately does more harm than good. But if someone shows the inability to be useful or good completely, then they get bummed. It's a shame for them, but they'll have to figure out what they can do by themselves and look for another job.

I don't mind training people to do a better job, but they will have to show promise or I can't be arsed. I have better things to do with my time then.

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

I read 35% of the thread.. believe it or not, I have probably about the same people skills as you do, Whatever, in real life. Okay, that's a bit of a stretch for you, given my online act. But, here's an example.

I was given a retarded autist person to train for in one of my summer jobs, were I was incredibly overqualified. I had to put up with his retardedness from day to day. I got excellent marks for people skills on my job.

You know what? I was kicked out, because I had different opinions to some mentor (and no, I wasnt't difficult, the mentor was). The mentor was like an evil incarnation of TypologyC Jennifer. She had her opinion, she was intelligent, and she shoved her opinion down anyone's throat, no matter of the blunt trauma done.

The retarded autist stayed on the job. He was a bosses former wife's son, which for some reason made all the difference.

My advice from a fellow human to human: don't exhaust yourself with autist persons. If he's disability is of different kind, still, don't exhaust yourself.

 

[ThatGirl]

I know! Let ThatGirl do it. She won't care.

*Traces finger over the Eject button*

"Now if you could just move three paces to your right......"

 

[PeaceBaby]

And how do you do it without spitting in the face of a younger version of yourself?

If he's a younger version of you and you are succeeding ...

List out exactly what he's lacking (I see some listed here, but what else?). And what do you see as his strengths?

 

[miss fortune]

not a younger version of me... just insulting the more idealistic version of myself- I've always been good at idly schmoozing

and no longer a concern... he finally realized it wasn't working well for him and he disappeared... hopefully the mob was not involved in the disappearance

 

[Jaguar]

You know what? I was kicked out, because I had different opinions to some mentor (and no, I wasnt't difficult, the mentor was). The mentor was like an evil incarnation of TypologyC Jennifer. She had her opinion, she was intelligent, and she shoved her opinion down anyone's throat, no matter of the blunt trauma done.

Mod Jennifer? Why would you pick someone as easy-going as Jennifer for your example. Did you just pull a name out of thin air, or what?