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  1. #41
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LotsOfHeart View Post
    I agree. I never said otherwise; my main song to sing here is just that the corporate mindset draws unhealthy activity out of those who are more easily corrupted. Maybe those people are just corrupt to begin with, but the system encourages them, and it just becomes a vicious circle.
    IMO, the ones who are corrupt within a corporate environment would be corrupt elsewhere, as long as their price was met. And I also believe that everyone has their price which isn't always quantified in dollars and cents.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    IMO, the ones who are corrupt within a corporate environment would be corrupt elsewhere, as long as their price was met. And I also believe that everyone has their price which isn't always quantified in dollars and cents.
    Yeah, I agree with that also. I guess it's just kinda messed up our society does reward that behavior in many ways. However, in the long run, I think integrity, combined with diligence and hard work, does win out most of the time.
    A hero is someone who does the right thing without expectation of reward, just because it's the right thing to do.

  3. #43
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LotsOfHeart View Post
    Yeah, I agree with that also. I guess it's just kinda messed up our society does reward that behavior in many ways. However, in the long run, I think integrity, combined with diligence and hard work, does win out most of the time.
    Or so naive idealist minds prefer to believe. :rolli:

  4. #44
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    Definitely an interesting article!

  5. #45
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    It is. But I had the same thoughts as FDG did quite a while ago ~

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Sounds horrible, even if he tries to spin it in a "nice" way. I'd rather live in a small shack as a fisherman. He doesn't understand how...self-involved he sounds, while at the same moment how little it matters to be a cog in a big corporation just because it can grant you a nice "career". You're not trying to find a new cure for cancer or prove fermat's theorem. In fact, people that actually DO this and will be remembered for centuries are rarely employed in high-pressure, high-pay, culturally "competitive" environments.
    You fight and work your ass off and put up with bullshit and console others who aren't as good at putting up with bullshit and handle constant crises with too few resources and too many expectations and go home drained and get up the next morning to do it again. I'm doing it now, and yes, I've been rising rapidly. In some ways I accept and enjoy it. I never saw it for anything more than the money game it is. It's also addicting, because you always have to stay two steps ahead of losing. Even on quiet days, you have to be on top of your numbers and ready for impending crisis (as interpreted by the echelons above you - IMO, it's rare you ever actually have real crises.)

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    I'm not convinced that it's for anyone.
    Me neither.

    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    Money is a construct of humanity and a biproduct of current thinking and lifestyle. If you reset life, money is gone until the next [de]volved species creates it again. Understanding it's role doesn't translate into supporting the system that created it or it's rules.
    Exactly. So many corporations seem to be for the purpose of making money. On one hand, making a living is a universal need. If you enjoy and are skilled at creating something of value, or rendering some service of value, then it's a win-win situation. On the other, making money is a bizarre, artificial construct. That's where we go from companies trying to sell a high-quality specialized product or service to massive quantities of crappy products or services. Quality is reduced in favor of quantity. The owners no longer care what the product or service is and whether it is contributing to the good of humanity. The workers, being trained and experienced specialists, realize that they are now devoting their lives to creating a shitty product or offering a shitty service - even though they know how to do the job well - and become jaded and removed from the process. You begin to kiss the clients' asses, instead of having integrity, because you don't actually have anything to back up. It becomes a farce, a stage, a big play of pretending to offer something good and treating people right so that they'll buy into the facade. And that's what you end up doing, trading emptiness for money. A little bit of low-quality reality and a whole lot of emptiness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Yeah, it's why I can't buy into the conspiracy theory that "government is inherently evil." It's like, NO, you freaking dumbass....people are just like this, and the corporate structure is all-too-similar to primitive structures of government, and would become even more so given more free reign.

    Libertarianism in its purest form won't work for the same reason communism in it's extreme form doesn't work: human nature.

    It makes me wonder why more self-proclaimed NTs aren't able to see this. I can comprehend why SJs would miss the underlying pattern, but I don't get why an NT wouldn't see it too. Maybe because some NTs lack social intelligence?
    Actually I think many SJs do see it, but they are able to separate that from their values in a way that NFs can't. I know many SFJs are disillusioned humanists like myself, and the STJs I know at work are generally good people who do a good, steady job, are friendly but serious with their coworkers and staff, perform and direct things as they're asked, and go home without a huge stress burden. Though when a company starts to sell out like I've described above, they feel it too, because if SJs have anything, it's integrity, and the lying, cheating, and stealing from the people who have the least and from the people who don't know any better - everything that's inherent to that process - doesn't sit well with someone with integrity. I think many people just feel trapped and are afraid of the challenge of finding something new. Myself included.

    I'm sorry if this whole post sounds terribly jaded, but I've had it with the empty money game... I haven't been burned (yet), but I see how many people it hurts day after day after day. I hope the whole company either shapes up - because it was a beautiful thing, once - or goes up in flames.

  6. #46
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    this thread is a good example of why I'm becoming a CPA as opposed to an MBA. accountants don't have to deal with all the political, Machiavellian shit mentioned in this thread (or, at least, we don't have to deal with nearly as much of it)
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  7. #47
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    How can you enjoy going home drained every day...? Maybe you mean "nicely tired and feeling like you have done your best"?
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  8. #48
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    How can you enjoy going home drained every day...? Maybe you mean "nicely tired and feeling like you have done your best"?
    If you're asking in response to me, no, not nicely tired, more like battle haggard. But feeling like I have been pushed far beyond what I thought were my limits: I have grown a much, much thicker skin, I have become far less tolerant of bullshit from others, and I have become much more confident in my own judgment calls.

    I think it's been good for me in some ways. But I also think I should take my money and run before I become brainwashed.

  9. #49
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    Here's an insight into corporate hive-mind culture....

    It's just another face on socialisation where other people will use peer pressure to bring you into line and assuage their own regret over never amounting to much.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    Interesting article I came across, with additional discussion in the comments http://www.pakg1.net/2010/11/what-av...nderstand.html
    This guys is an ENTP man.

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