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  1. #11
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Most jobs are not like art or music. Would you prefer a fresh-out-of-med-school doctor doing your surgery, or one who has experience? Isn't it better for n00bs to be handheld a bit while they learn the ropes? That means not having as much autonomy as the people who have been in the field longer. I disagree that job tasks get easier- more enjoyable, more fulfilling, and less tedious probably, but most jobs require a widening skill-set as you advance.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
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  2. #12
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    It isn't really so much about experience at an entry level job, I'd think. I think it's more about established people in the company and field having the opportunity to observe your ability and reliability in a situation where you can't do too much damage if it turns out you are unreliable or incompetent. They have a lot more at stake than a person just starting in the field.

    Say I had a bakery and my child did really nice crayon pictures of cakes, I still wouldn't put her in charge of making a wedding cake for the mayor's daughter her first day on the job. I'd start her out making cookies or something small like that.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
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  3. #13
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    1. I recently have had this tiny spark in the back of my mind that has been growing and growing: YOU NEED TO BE A TEACHER!
    Babylon Candle,

    I'd recommend you take the assessment at this site. It will let you know the types of careers that are most suitable to you. (Although it costs a little money.)
    The Career Key™ - Your Personality - Take the Career Key

    Also I've done teaching in the past. You can certainly make a living at it, but you might have to settle for a smaller house, older car, or fewer luxuries in general. Ultimately I think if you find a career that you really love, then the luxuries of life won't seem as important.
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
    http://www.revoltingvegetables.com

  4. #14
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Most jobs are not like art or music. Would you prefer a fresh-out-of-med-school doctor doing your surgery, or one who has experience? Isn't it better for n00bs to be handheld a bit while they learn the ropes? That means not having as much autonomy as the people who have been in the field longer. I disagree that job tasks get easier- more enjoyable, more fulfilling, and less tedious probably, but most jobs require a widening skill-set as you advance.
    I don't agree at all with that last statement. The more you advance the less it is required of you technically. You are required to lead and to coordinate. To be a business man/woman.

    I did say generally. Medicine is slightly different but then again you don't go up much in the same sense. As for having autonomy or not...I don't mean it's justifiable to put noobs in jobs of great responsibility right away....certainly not when people's life's are at stake. But I believe in merit more than in experience.

    Anyway, my original point was merely that one shouldn't believe the system will magically grant us happiness if we stick to it long enough. I don't think that is a good way to live life at all. You could die tomorrow. Enjoy what you are doing. Be inventive and bold. Don't play it safe and plan too much ahead....smell the freakin roses before cancer or stress get the better of you.

  5. #15
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Sort of agree about not accepting that jobs are "supposed" to suck- however! It's also true that most entry-level jobs DO suck. You usually have to pay your dues at the bottom rung before you can do the interesting stuff. Employers very rarely give interesting, high-paying jobs to entry-level applicants. A soul-sucking job can be a launching pad to an enjoyable career, if you don't get stuck.
    Well, perhaps they don't give interesting + high-paying, but I think it's not totally unreasonable to just ask for interesting, even with an entry-level pay, which would be understandable. Of course, as long as the person is sufficiently talented - I think a "paying dues" attitude towards younger people can generate extreme amounts of inefficiency, since older workers aren't necessarily more productive than recent graduates (unless the task is extremely complex, for example doctors, high-level engineers, etc.).

    Do you think people are generally ready for advanced positions straight out of college/trade school?
    Most people are not ready for advanced positions, even when they manage to obtain them. So, if someone were really talented, then he'd probably be ready in a very short time. I remember one of the latest CEOs of Nokia managed to get there at 29 - it was weird to see the pictures with all the 60-something along with his - and he didn't fare worse than all the others. I think most of the time is just a matter of power, a given work-position is akin to a parcel of land in the worker's mind (which is totally understandable), so older people will defend their privileges no matter what their actual ability is, compared to newcomers.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  6. #16
    Senior Member ItsAGuy's Avatar
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    Okay; seriously. BE A TEACHER. Grunts and technicians and artists and political leaders and public defenders and medics and such... all terribly necessary. None are more necessary than a good teacher, since without the latter we'll never have any of the former, will we? It's a travesty that people even have to ask 'is it viable.' We can't do without whether its viable or not! We've spend the last 30-40 years (in the states) culling our education and look where we are today... falling behind.

    Be a teacher.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  7. #17
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    MORE INFORMATION

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    I warn you however that teaching is more than class room time - you´ll spend a lot of time planning your classes, developing teaching material, doing some administrative paper work, dealing with angry parents, kids who don´t want to learn, kids who kill each other in knife fights (well, this one depends heavily on the type of school you pick, I guess), grading dozents and dozents of tests, essays or whatever on your weekends or until late at night, a lot of routine work there as well, and on top of that you´ll get people telling you how priviledged you are. A lot of teachers actually get burned out way before retirement age. That doesn´t mean it isn´t a beautiful and meaningful profession in which you could find fulfillment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    You didn't say if you're still volunteering with kids. If you try to do more of that in a variety of settings and different age groups, you'll have a better idea of whether you like it. In particular, kids aren't going to be as pleasant in math (for example) as they are playing soccer (for example). It would be a good idea to try teaching kids in a more academic situation, if you can - perhaps some kind of summer learning camp or something, or better yet, job shadowing if you can manage it.
    I forgot to mention that my "Coaching background" was not just 2 hours a week for little league soccer. I've done stints of working 50 to 70 hours a week coaching over summers with 100s of kids k-12 age. It involved getting 40 to 50 kids at a time to pay attention and learn the individual drills/skills. It involved dealing with parents, admin work, and a lot of preparation time that was not included in the general "practice schedule". The drills and "teaching aspect" was very involved. The whole job was basically about learning to be better at the sport (its a sport that is very unnatural to 99% of humans). I created a very detailed outline and "cheat sheets" for the other coaches (I was the head coach). When my sister saw all of this she remarked that I had basically created lesson plans :laughs:.

    I do know that still, I have not completely experienced teaching an entirely academic setting. I do, however, simply desire to teach. I think I'm just most scared about what my peers would think of me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    That said, BC, you sound like you'd enjoy teaching PE. The pay's no better but it does seem like PE teachers don't have the same pressures put on them as other teachers- there's no end-of-grade PE test, for example.
    My degrees were a combination of finance/biology. I've been hearing a lot about how science subjects are easier to get jobs these days, and so I'd probably teach chem/bio. I also think I'd enjoy teaching social studies. Maybe I'd add that in later.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    The whole problem here is the "entry job" mentality and "ladders". The whole philosophy of "you're eating shit now so you can eat kaviar later on.....where you're 90..."
    I used to think this was my problem...just being unhappy at the bottom. However, now that I see what the top people do, it might just be that I'm unhappy in office jobs, period.

  8. #18
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Financially, it's viable. However with the way we are going culturally, children are showing up less and less able and prepared to learn. They do not have good attachments with adults, they are not used to sitting and focussing because there are very few if any other venues in their lives where that is expected, parents are not spending much time helping them at home or preparing them, they are more and more used to leading the way even in their own homes, and there are very little methods of recourse left open for those who do not wish to work. Many are dealing with emotional issues which are affecting their behavioural, social and academic choices as well. Most teachers I know are now looking to get out of the profession. Especially in the last five years, things have really gone further downhill with the advent of cell phones, texting, facebook, MP3 players etc. Many teachers are permitting students to choose their own seats, work out in the hall, drink pop in class, eat, and listen to music while they work in an effort to get kids on their side because they have very little other tools to work with. Parents are busy enough and have little enough influence that they really don't want to hear from teachers anymore because they are not sure how to change their child's behaviour or they don't feel the need to.

    I'm saying this as a teacher who loves teaching. However, I'm looking into other venues of teaching (ESL, creating a new kind of program or alternate school, writing/speaking) because I cannot see a lot of hope for the future as things are. There are very few opportunities to actually get to teach during the average school day, even in some of the better schools and I expect it's only going to get more that way.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    I taught for two years and I'll never do it again. Didn't even renew my certificate. And I sit behind a computer screen all day; beyond that is a beige wall. That's how bad teaching can be -- it would make you HAPPY to have the circumstances you now have. Whenever I think how bad it is, I think of what I got away from, and even all those years later, it still pleases me not to be teaching. You're thinking of it like some magical job. It can be a monstrous 24/7 pain in the butt with no gratification anywhere that wears you out and makes you miserable.

  10. #20
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    I'm noticing a lot of INxx responses here. I'm 100 percent an extrovert. Could this perhaps be a factor that would make my experience different from the infjs?

    Also. I don't think it's fair to say that I see this as some cake walk dream job. My previous coaching work with kids was seen by many as a nightmare job (50 to 70 hours a week), but I loved it. I have the cushy type job now. It's frankly just boring.

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