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  1. #51
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    That's always a mistake.
    But I thought, I hoped... ah

    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    I don't have the motivation.

    That kind of shit.
    That's just a shit attitude. It indicates a self-sabotaging process of circular reasoning: q.v. Negative Automatic Thoughts.
    Look into my avatar. Look deep into my avatar...

  2. #52
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    That's sad to see... and interesting they used transgenders to display the argument; rather than males and females directly, they showed the transition from one side to the other having a direct correlation for someone who got to see both sides of the issue, and specifically, they did both male to female and female to male.

    This's still anecdotal evidence at best, but it does give a sadly strong example of the fact that we still have a long way to go.

    Things're alot better than they were, and naturally they'll progress over time to fix these issues; science is one of those fields of study where yeu don't just work there until yeu're 20 and then BAM turnover to new people. People tend to stay in those careers until very late in life, or until they're dead... and the people at the top right now, grew up in the 50's before the rights movements went on in the states.

    So yeah, it's not going to go away immediately. Fortunately, when the children of TODAY grow up, and THEY are the ones at the top, things will probably be significantly better... but it'll be a slow change. And they are still tainted by this same crap going on, and listening to their grandparents and such.

    It'll still take quite awhile for such to truly change.

    But at least we're on the right track, even if it's an agonizingly slow one.

  3. #53
    Senior Member Misty_Mountain_Rose's Avatar
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    I'm suspicious of the article's bias myself. It seems like there could be other factors here that we have no way of confirming.

    - Did the transgendered individuals ACT differently, perhaps subconsciously, that brought about these issues?

    - Could prejudice against their decision to alter their sex play a part?


    There was something about the story of the person transitioning from male to female that made me think there was more to it and almost makes that particular argument worthless to me. Her previous area of study was tide pools. After her transition, she chose a topic related specifically to sexuality and one that takes on "Darwin's theory of sexuality", submitting her theory that it is more 'social' than 'biological'. It sounds like something a person, beset upon by a prejudice society, friends or family might take an interest in because of personal injuries... be it subconscious or conscious. If her peers knew of her sex change and took her theory as a personal rant against the rules of a society that doesn't approve, it could hinder her ability to be taken seriously. She even chose to study animals where same-sex intercourse existed, which may or may not have been seen as an extention of her (presumably) previously homosexual lifestyle. I do not agree with descrimination, but homophobia linked with discomfort at working with a transgendered individual who was studying this topic of all things, could bring about the emotional responses she was referring to. It might depend on how she presented the material as well, which may or may not have had a personal agenda linked to it.

    I would imagine that in the science world, anything seen as potentially "Finding facts to uphold the theory" rather than the other way around is considered heresy.

    Having said all that in relation to the article...

    I DO agree that sexual bias still exists. We have an owner in our company who regularly interrupts and talks over the women who may be speaking in meetings, and just yesterday morning say to a young girl in our office who had a question "It means XYZ... is that not clear??". He was completely exasperated by her request for clarification, which no one else thought anything about and thought perfectly legit. I've heard him say that phrase ("Is that not clear?") at least 10 times over the last couple of years, but NEVER have I heard him direct it at a male co-worker.

    My boss who works directly over me said in my review last time around 'I'm impressed with how you handle yourself in the situation you find yourself in.' When I looked at him in confusion wondering what situation I was in exactly he continued "... you know, working with all guys and what-not". I had rarely thought about it myself, but apparently he has. He's made remarks before about how I'm 'more outspoken than most women' and he seems not to know what to make of it... and so he will then say 'It must be because you are from Up North...' because here in the Good Ole South women are expected to be more obedient.

    Another coworker has told me "We need to find you a man who will set you straight" because apparently I'm not well behaved (AKA taking orders without question and demurely following the male opinions in the office)

    A coworker who worked here previously but has since left was class A sexual harassment waiting to happen.

    Its a load of crap, but I've found ways to work the system to my benefit in true INTJ fashion.
    Embrace the possibilities.

  4. #54
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misty_Mountain_Rose View Post
    I'm suspicious of the article's bias myself. It seems like there could be other factors here that we have no way of confirming.

    - Did the transgendered individuals ACT differently, perhaps subconsciously, that brought about these issues?

    - Could prejudice against their decision to alter their sex play a part?


    There was something about the story of the person transitioning from male to female that made me think there was more to it and almost makes that particular argument worthless to me. Her previous area of study was tide pools. After her transition, she chose a topic related specifically to sexuality and one that takes on "Darwin's theory of sexuality", submitting her theory that it is more 'social' than 'biological'. It sounds like something a person, beset upon by a prejudice society, friends or family might take an interest in because of personal injuries... be it subconscious or conscious. If her peers knew of her sex change and took her theory as a personal rant against the rules of a society that doesn't approve, it could hinder her ability to be taken seriously. She even chose to study animals where same-sex intercourse existed, which may or may not have been seen as an extention of her (presumably) previously homosexual lifestyle. I do not agree with descrimination, but homophobia linked with discomfort at working with a transgendered individual who was studying this topic of all things, could bring about the emotional responses she was referring to. It might depend on how she presented the material as well, which may or may not have had a personal agenda linked to it.
    A quite possibly valid point, I wasn't going to reply to this part, but realized yeu're very possibly right so I had to say that much XD

    There's stronger bias, supposedly, towards transgenders than actual gays... odd as that is. Not sure the reasoning, I could speculate on many matters, but that's for a different topic.

    For now, there's the issue that the ones they were dealing with may not have known of such a change either, as well.


    I DO agree that sexual bias still exists. We have an owner in our company who regularly interrupts and talks over the women who may be speaking in meetings, and just yesterday morning say to a young girl in our office who had a question "It means XYZ... is that not clear??". He was completely exasperated by her request for clarification, which no one else thought anything about and thought perfectly legit. I've heard him say that phrase ("Is that not clear?") at least 10 times over the last couple of years, but NEVER have I heard him direct it at a male co-worker.

    My boss who works directly over me said in my review last time around 'I'm impressed with how you handle yourself in the situation you find yourself in.' When I looked at him in confusion wondering what situation I was in exactly he continued "... you know, working with all guys and what-not". I had rarely thought about it myself, but apparently he has. He's made remarks before about how I'm 'more outspoken than most women' and he seems not to know what to make of it... and so he will then say 'It must be because you are from Up North...' because here in the Good Ole South women are expected to be more obedient.

    Another coworker has told me "We need to find you a man who will set you straight" because apparently I'm not well behaved (AKA taking orders without question and demurely following the male opinions in the office)

    A coworker who worked here previously but has since left was class A sexual harassment waiting to happen.

    Its a load of crap, but I've found ways to work the system to my benefit in true INTJ fashion.
    I haven't noticed any of this myself... yet. But considering the field I'm studying for, I have a bad feeling I may run into this soon enough.

    It's kind of sad to hear such things really do still occur, but southern states, from whot I've dealt with previously when working at a repair call center, have shown themselves to be generally quite far behind the times, so I suppose I'm not surprised it's so prevalent there.

    Still sucks and is grrr to realize people act that way.

    It'd be nice if we could just not even think about these things... then again, it's brought up time and again, as often by those trying to support a cause, as those that are the cause of the problem. It's endlessly poked at constantly and consistently, I'm not surprised yeur boss had thought about it, either, since he probably has to listen to it on tv, from coworkers, in movies, etc etc etc ad nausium everywheres he goes. If yeu're the boss and are cautious about lawsuits for harassment, yeu're probably more in tune to this thing to avoid getting in trouble. It didn't sound really like active sexism or anything the way yeu'd described it, moreso just idle observation.

    But the rest of it was surly irritating as hell >.<

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