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  2. #12
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Yes, yes, I understand, might makes right, a simple answer to a complex problem. But one generally cannot take up fists to a whole group, what then?
    I find that after causing pain for a small number of the big dogs the little dogs tend to stand back and bark (just bloody their nose) or turn tail(the ultimate goal). It's not the first step in securing a solution, but through school I never left it out of the order of operations. Thankfully, some people respond to words (sometimes quite forceful words); others, however, just need an ass kicking.

    Edit: Then again, I've long been of the mind that if I must become a spider to save the butterflies, then so be it.
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

    INFP, 6w7, IEI

    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

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  3. #13
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by runvardh View Post
    I find that after causing pain for a small number of the big dogs the little dogs tend to stand back and bark (just bloody their nose) or turn tail(the ultimate goal). It's not the first step in securing a solution, but through school I never left it out of the order of operations. Thankfully, some people respond to words (sometimes quite forceful words); others, however, just need an ass kicking.

    Edit: Then again, I've long been of the mind that if I must become a spider to save the butterflies, then so be it.
    I don't really understand how this applies to a group mobbing situation. You seem to be still thinking of it as one or two bullies, or even four or five but what about when it is the community? A classroom. Three classrooms in the same grade at assemblies? What about when harassing a select few individuals is just the "in" thing in that community?

    Is one person going to stand up and fist fight the whole group? I guess Captain Kirk could.

  4. #14
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    I have always strongly believed that the reason for the prevelence of bullying in schools is the disciplinary approach to it, or the lack thereof. The point is schools never take it seriously and don't punish it as a serious offence; and in the eyes of the students, this is tantamount to sanctioning it.

    I can remember at school how we'd have these talks with experts on bullying and (as a bullied person) I felt completely insulted by them. The school thought that if someone came in and said "bullying is bad", they could pat themselves on the back for a job well done. All the while they were making no other efforts the rest of the year to do actually something about it . Even as a young child I recognized how the school was belittling my situation and felt like I was being hung out to dry on a daily basis. Most of the time I wished I was being hit (rather than bullied with words) because a least someone would see I was suffering and do something about it.

    More needs to be done to punish those that bully; inaction is simply encouraging it. Kids aren't stupid, they know when something is to be taken seriously. They learn through the behaviour of the authority figures in their lives. Kids respond surpisingly strongly when they see their peers being punished for breaking a rule. If the importance of that rule is made clear to them, they often start helping to enforce it and can make breaking that rule a social taboo.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Ming's Avatar
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    I can't really say much; but I'm in school right now, so I might as well talk about this issue.

    I'm sure we've all incurred some sort of 'bullying' or 'abuse' in our lives; so it really firstly just depends on what you view 'bullying' is.

    I've been bullied, but not seriously; the most I've ever got was a punch in the face (a light one), and just a collar drag. I myself have never done these things to people, I'm an ESFP, not a drunk. I'm considerate of others.. And being gay, I kinda don't want to touch those people. You never know when I might 'accidentally' grab their ass or something (Just joking! )

    What surprised me was that some people get the wrong impression of bullies. Rumours spread around faster; in boys more. Boys fickle more than girls. Admit it .

    When someone gets punched/bashed/'defeated' in some way, it travels around the school, and the reputation changes, the victor higher, the loser lower. And all of a sudden there is this fear of the 'bully', who really didn't do anything in the first place, and that creates an isolation to the 'bully'. That creates mix/confused feelings; usually drop in self esteem.

    There's also an issue of 'peer pressure'. People like seeing two people fight, and when you're the 'bully' they cheer you on. If you disagree, you discharge with the 'flow', and you switch places. The 'bully' is seen as weak and pathetic, and the bully become the 'victim'.

    There's ALSO just people who are naturally d*ckheads and want to bash another person for no reason; they're called the 'dumb' jocks. Or All muscle no brains..

    I'm not sure about it, but even in a selective schools like ours, we have smoking under 18. We have gangsters, but none of them are hardcore. Most of them just like wrestling with each other! People see this and start spreading rumors... I'm not sure about the other schools, especially a normal public school.

    I'm thankful that I haven't been bullied; but even if I am going to, I have my gang of friends. And I have raw power ! I'm one of those people that won't fight back until someone ELSE I need to protect is injured. Then I get pissed like hell..

  6. #16
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    I don't really understand how this applies to a group mobbing situation. You seem to be still thinking of it as one or two bullies, or even four or five but what about when it is the community? A classroom. Three classrooms in the same grade at assemblies? What about when harassing a select few individuals is just the "in" thing in that community?

    Is one person going to stand up and fist fight the whole group? I guess Captain Kirk could.
    There's still no need to do it to all of them. It's called picking the key players at the top. When you take out the head the body falls to pieces. Once the body falls to pieces it's eaiser to take out the remaining issues one at a time. You have to fight strategically, otherwise all you do waste effort on just getting your ass kicked. I wasn't a big boy growing up; fists are great, but they're useless if you don't calculate their trajectories with the brain as well.

    Edit: I also see lack of discipline from the staff is adding to the issue; however, due to litigational issues these days, and general human laziness, I don't see this changing any time soon. Sure, give the system a chance to work, but be prepared for it to be too broken to be of use.
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

    INFP, 6w7, IEI

    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  7. #17
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    I know that my school never did anything about bullying... the principle was somewhat notorious once for saying in response to a parent "kids will be kids... just let them sort it out among themselves"

    After elementary school when anyone in accellerated classes tended to get taunted for being a smart kid (which I set straight as reminding some that smart kids can kick their asses as well... which helps if you're involved with sports from an early age) I was pretty much left alone for a few years. Middle school was easy- I was a good friend with the most popular girl in school thanks to the fact that we'd known each other and grew up together in the same rural area of the county, and also I was smart enough to spin my own social web of bribery, payoffs and middle school hit people to keep my grade level running as it should

    Unfortunatly, we had a real problem with hazing in high school athletics and I was the ONLY member of my grade level to run cross country... meaning one freshman with 16 upper classmen. After a few days of getting taunted and stalked by a few seniors I finally got mad when one male decided to follow me into the girl's lockerroom. He was about 6'4" so I kicked him in the kneecap to bring him closer to my level and then punched him in the face and informed him that if he didn't call things off I would slit his tires... apparently that approach worked, because I was safe for the rest of high school as well!

    the pathetic thing is though, I got to spend about 4 days miserable because of it and the coach didn't do a thing about it- he said "it's always been that way- it's a part of high school" :rolli:

    adults need to get over that attitude
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  8. #18
    Senior Member Ming's Avatar
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    You must got good legs?

  9. #19
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I know that my school never did anything about bullying... the principle was somewhat notorious once for saying in response to a parent "kids will be kids... just let them sort it out among themselves"
    I've had a lunch recess teacher watch be getting bullied and taunting me to "scream louder".

    After elementary school when anyone in accellerated classes tended to get taunted for being a smart kid (which I set straight as reminding some that smart kids can kick their asses as well... which helps if you're involved with sports from an early age) I was pretty much left alone for a few years. Middle school was easy- I was a good friend with the most popular girl in school thanks to the fact that we'd known each other and grew up together in the same rural area of the county, and also I was smart enough to spin my own social web of bribery, payoffs and middle school hit people to keep my grade level running as it should

    Unfortunatly, we had a real problem with hazing in high school athletics and I was the ONLY member of my grade level to run cross country... meaning one freshman with 16 upper classmen. After a few days of getting taunted and stalked by a few seniors I finally got mad when one male decided to follow me into the girl's lockerroom. He was about 6'4" so I kicked him in the kneecap to bring him closer to my level and then punched him in the face and informed him that if he didn't call things off I would slit his tires... apparently that approach worked, because I was safe for the rest of high school as well!
    Good job in both cases.

    the pathetic thing is though, I got to spend about 4 days miserable because of it and the coach didn't do a thing about it- he said "it's always been that way- it's a part of high school" :rolli:

    adults need to get over that attitude
    That's where we come in. We're the adults now and can choose not to encourage those actions. Someone under my care has been pressed to defend themselves; I've done something wrong and need to correct it.
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

    INFP, 6w7, IEI

    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  10. #20
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    The pathetic thing is though, I got to spend about 4 days miserable because of it and the coach didn't do a thing about it- he said "it's always been that way- it's a part of high school" :rolli:

    adults need to get over that attitude
    Whenever people say that I realize they must have been a bully in school. No one that was tormented would say that.

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