User Tag List

First 34567 Last

Results 41 to 50 of 65

  1. #41
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    3,377

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by noigmn View Post
    This is interesting. I've always seen creativity as a balance between learning how to do something and being free to approach it however you like. The more you learn the how to do it, the more skilled you get at it, but the more you conform to the method and do it less uniquely your way. This is why I like the idea of teaching fundamentals rather than methods or approaches. Higher level stuff tells the student how to do something, when understanding the medium they have to work within is far more powerful.
    I used to teach college level math. I remember one issue I had with students is that I wanted to teach them that there were several different ways to solve a problem and they were free to use their own method as long as they obeyed the basic rules of algebra. However I often had students complain that I did this, because they only wanted to learn one method. So eventually I just taught one method. They just wanted the easiest way to get through the course, because they didn't really like math to begin with. In fact I think there are a lot of students that don't really like most of their courses, but they just want to get a diploma and get out of school.

    I think what Babylon Candle was correct when he said that something like homeschools or private tutors would be needed to encourage creativity with education. Not only do schools discourage creativity, but they've trained students to hate it too. I believe there are plenty of people, students and teachers, who are dissatisfied with the current status of education, but it is impossible to radically change the institution from within.
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
    http://www.revoltingvegetables.com

  2. #42
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6
    Posts
    24,060

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by forzen View Post
    Well to an extent, you do need to know what's already known. Their only teaching you establish facts.
    If it were effective, I'd agree with you, but I don't think many traditional schools are geared towards actually teaching students to think or giving them much useful knowledge. A lot of rote memorization isn't going to stick without a framework to put it in. And if students become resentful then they are no longer open to learning. Keeping the fire lit is so important, IMO.

    I think it's possible to have an excellent, non-traditional education. I think my daughter's getting that at her school, which is a public charter school.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  3. #43
    Oberon
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sofmarhof View Post
    I started out studying education, too. But it is a waste to sit in a class full of future public school teachers arguing over AP classes or how many hours a week should be spend on x subject when you have a drastic reorganization of the entire system of education in mind.
    If you really intend to pursue that, working through the education establishment will get you exactly nowhere. You'll get swatted like an annoying fly.

    That being the case, I do think you are where you need to be. You'll need to get that teaching certificate ticket punched. Think of it as a first milestone on a long journey.

  4. #44
    Senior Member forzen's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Socionics
    X/0
    Posts
    547

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    If it were effective, I'd agree with you, but I don't think many traditional schools are geared towards actually teaching students to think or giving them much useful knowledge. A lot of rote memorization isn't going to stick without a framework to put it in. And if students become resentful then they are no longer open to learning. Keeping the fire lit is so important, IMO.

    I think it's possible to have an excellent, non-traditional education. I think my daughter's getting that at her school, which is a public charter school.
    True, but your expose to alot of knowledges that you wouldn't generally seek out on your own. The spectrum of creativity doesn't not die when its in this kind of environment, it just sufficate. However, those useless knowledges might one day manifest into something useful as creativity is taking the known and arranging it into something useful/beautiful/etc. which is true to a person who's naturally creative.

    If nothing else, your daughter would be exposed to the zombiefied world of traditional education and understand the less creative people's thought process due to the exposure. It will create new bridges in her brain's neuron pathway and will help her grow as a person. So there is a positive side, but it looks like you don't think the positive outweights the negative which is understandable.

    I do see how it could affect a person's motivation to learn which I think is your main concern. To be honest, i don't think one method is enough to teach students the different subject, all students learn differently, but hiring people with different method of teaching will cost alot of money.
    This post grammatical errors had been intentionally left uncorrected.

  5. #45
    Senior Member forzen's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Socionics
    X/0
    Posts
    547

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    I used to teach college level math. I remember one issue I had with students is that I wanted to teach them that there were several different ways to solve a problem and they were free to use their own method as long as they obeyed the basic rules of algebra. However I often had students complain that I did this, because they only wanted to learn one method. So eventually I just taught one method. They just wanted the easiest way to get through the course, because they didn't really like math to begin with. In fact I think there are a lot of students that don't really like most of their courses, but they just want to get a diploma and get out of school.

    I think what Babylon Candle was correct when he said that something like homeschools or private tutors would be needed to encourage creativity with education. Not only do schools discourage creativity, but they've trained students to hate it too. I believe there are plenty of people, students and teachers, who are dissatisfied with the current status of education, but it is impossible to radically change the institution from within.
    I would have loved you as a teacher.
    This post grammatical errors had been intentionally left uncorrected.

  6. #46
    Senior Member sofmarhof's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    327

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    If you really intend to pursue that, working through the education establishment will get you exactly nowhere. You'll get swatted like an annoying fly.

    That being the case, I do think you are where you need to be. You'll need to get that teaching certificate ticket punched. Think of it as a first milestone on a long journey.
    Oh, I'm not trying to be a revolutionary anymore. I'm just going to teach myself and my future children the way I think is right without worrying about the rest of the world. The only thing I'm really concerned about is homeschooling rights being taken away. Someday I might write something about it, but that's all. For a while I was fanatically trying to get everyone I knew to read John Holt, but that didn't work.

    Going with the people who say it's important to teach the basics, I do think in some ways really traditional education treats students better. NYU is a horrible bureaucratic teaching machine with foofy liberal arts ideals thrown in, which is worse than plain old rote learning because you're always dealing with their insincere nonsense about "learning to think" and such.

  7. #47
    Nickle Iron Silicone Charmed Justice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    2,808

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by forzen View Post
    True, but your expose to alot of knowledges that you wouldn't generally seek out on your own. The spectrum of creativity doesn't not die when its in this kind of environment, it just sufficate. However, those useless knowledges might one day manifest into something useful as creativity is taking the known and arranging it into something useful/beautiful/etc. which is true to a person who's naturally creative.
    I completely disagree with that. In traditional schools, you are exposed to a lot of useless information that you generally wouldn't seek out on your own because it's not applicable to your life; and, is unlikely to ever be. The time spent in the classroom memorizing irrelevant dates and facts could be used doing activities far more meaningful.

    You can hardly force a person to learn something they aren't interested in learning. This is partly why so many people come out of the school system, having been in it their entire lives, and can't spell, don't know the Pledge, and have little understanding of basic mathematical and/or grammatical concepts.

    Quote Originally Posted by forzen View Post
    If nothing else, your daughter would be exposed to the zombiefied world of traditional education and understand the less creative people's thought process due to the exposure. It will create new bridges in her brain's neuron pathway and will help her grow as a person. So there is a positive side, but it looks like you don't think the positive outweights the negative which is understandable.
    Can't speak for Ivy, but the traditional educational system has been tested for decades, and it has failed in so many ways. Not only do many people come out of the system with little to no real knowledge, but many traditional schools are down right dangerous. Stress, anger, and frustration do not foster healthy connections in the brain, and they don't support creativity or learning either.

    Quote Originally Posted by forzen View Post
    I do see how it could affect a person's motivation to learn which I think is your main concern. To be honest, i don't think one method is enough to teach students the different subject, all students learn differently, but hiring people with different method of teaching will cost alot of money.
    Precisely, convenience and simplicity are two of the primary drivers of institutions that serve the masses. You have to weigh the cost of that convenience. There's no such thing as a free lunch.
    There is a thinking stuff from which all things are made, and which, in its original state, permeates, penetrates, and fills the interspaces of the universe.

  8. #48
    Senior Member une_autre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Posts
    114

    Default

    I don't think schools kill creativity!
    Neither do I think that traditional schools from where I am coming are inefficient and dangerous.

    First of all, the info they are teaching is not useless at all. It's called general knowledge.
    I grew up in a place with a traditional school - eastern europe, where we had lots of subjects - 13 or 14 and some really nasty teachers. While some of the teaching methods were completely counter productive and I would change those, the fact is that I did get out of school knowing lots of stuff, even from the nasty teachers!

    Now I came in this place where people older than me have no idea about who Copernicus was or where is Mexico on the map, which is really, really sad. I cannot imagine that all students are that unwilling to learn or that all teachers are all that bad, so I can only infer that the "modern" system is the culprit. If you have just a few subjects and those have really loose requirements, you miss a lot of general knowledge!
    In this place, I actually feel surrounded by stupid people.

    Frankly, I think that the traditional system was better!
    Now, with the modern system, which allows you to slack off and to actually learn nothing while passing is a mess. But noooo, it's called development of the teaching system.

    Personally, I cannot see how this can encourage creativity in students who only want to graduate and take advantage of how loose the system is to get out of school knowing nothing. Why should you be creative if there is no reward for it?
    How can you be creative if you know NOTHING???


    You can only be creative if you have a knowledge base and if your brain is put to the test and trained continuously. If your teachers really ask for more from you.

  9. #49
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Posts
    6,707

    Default

    I don't understand teaching for the test.

    I've been taking standardized tests all my life, and the only tests that I've taken that really seem like they need "teaching" to is AP and possibly the SAT/ACT. The standardized tests that students have to take year after year were ridiculously easy, and I was taking them in a state that apparently has a "difficult" one! I don't see how not knowing the stuff on those tests really have to do with a lack of general knowledge rather than students just not focusing/taking them seriously/etc.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  10. #50
    Senior Member forzen's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Socionics
    X/0
    Posts
    547

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EnFpFer View Post
    I completely disagree with that. In traditional schools, you are exposed to a lot of useless information that you generally wouldn't seek out on your own because it's not applicable to your life; and, is unlikely to ever be. The time spent in the classroom memorizing irrelevant dates and facts could be used doing activities far more meaningful.
    I don't think theres such a thing as a useless information. I would have to say that traditional school teaches information that 90% of the time you would not use, but they do have practical uses, however its up to you to find it.

    Quote Originally Posted by EnFpFer View Post
    You can hardly force a person to learn something they aren't interested in learning. This is partly why so many people come out of the school system, having been in it their entire lives, and can't spell, don't know the Pledge, and have little understanding of basic mathematical and/or grammatical concepts.
    I completely agree, but I love to learn on just about anything. So no subject is unbareable, but I can see how people just can just concentrate in one area that they like. However, creativity can arise in anything so why close your mind off on anything that has the potential to help you.

    Quote Originally Posted by EnFpFer View Post
    Can't speak for Ivy, but the traditional educational system has been tested for decades, and it has failed in so many ways. Not only do many people come out of the system with little to no real knowledge, but many traditional schools are down right dangerous. Stress, anger, and frustration do not foster healthy connections in the brain, and they don't support creativity or learning either.
    I really think it's up to the person to put the effort to learn. I don't really think schooling is neccessary if you have the drive to learn in the first place. So in my opinion, school is just another way for a institution to rip me off my money and put many students into debt. However, the job market will not take you seriously unless you have that certificate, so in a way it's a neccessary evil. Plus, if you have the right professor, the professor's experience is priceless. And for introvert such as myself, it exposes me to social network that i wouldn't underwise seek out that I think is neccessary for success, however I find most of those situations boring.

    Quote Originally Posted by EnFpFer View Post
    Precisely, convenience and simplicity are two of the primary drivers of institutions that serve the masses. You have to weigh the cost of that convenience. There's no such thing as a free lunch.
    "Now Opening, University of MBTI ...learning to specilized to your personality type."

    Of course there would be an extreme inbalance of S type school and N type school lol.
    This post grammatical errors had been intentionally left uncorrected.

Similar Threads

  1. Two young men decide, it's time to do some killing.
    By KitchenFly in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 02-18-2016, 06:59 PM
  2. Does good memory kill creativity?
    By Cygnus in forum Academics and Careers
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 05-09-2015, 11:23 PM
  3. Replies: 10
    Last Post: 08-23-2012, 05:25 PM
  4. Why do schools give homework?
    By The Ü™ in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 75
    Last Post: 01-31-2009, 09:44 AM
  5. [NT] How well did/do you do in school?
    By The Ü™ in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 125
    Last Post: 08-20-2008, 01:40 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO