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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott N Denver View Post
    IME, NTP's go for theory [Ti, Ne], and NTJ's for experimentalists.

    IN math proofs were always A implies B implies C implies D etc implies theorem, it was all right there in front of you.

    I can't count the number of times I've heard physics talk like "imagine that you [in situation such and such] and now think about it from angle [such and such], now with that, and a little bit of math, you can show that [such and such]. "Suggestive proofs" or some such title.

    Oh, for the record, I have a BS in math and physics, MS in physics, and came close to getting a PhD in applied physics. I went to several schools, and have worked in several research labs.
    Cool, I have honours (Australian thing (four year)) degrees in Engineering (ECSE) and Science (Physics) and got half way through a PhD in physics. I do what you said with the physics talk. Seeing the solution is all about perspective and approach. I sit well between theoretical and experimental too.

    My main gripe is the restriction from really exploring and the limited human interaction. I don't like doing fine technical proofs either, more working with ideas and seeing solutions. There's a bit of a push to be structured and planned in research too, and ENFP structure and approach isn't really on the list. My last boss was awesome because he would just say what he wanted and accept the output at the end (normally a description of the whole system so he could understand it). There was none of this progress stuff making sure I was approaching it Si style. It still drove me nuts because I was interacting with ideas and computers too much rather than people though.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  2. #12
    Member KarliJoanne's Avatar
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    my boyfriend is an experimental physics grad student and he LOVES it. A lot. He's an ISTP.

  3. #13
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noigmn View Post
    The work environment seems not quite right for either though. I'm not sure what it is. I'd be interested in the views of INTPs and ENTPs who are already in the area. I think it is more about the workplace than the subject matter.
    I'm not in physics, but I was thinking this exact thing before you posted it. I've dabbled in Physics and other hard sciences (and I love math and economics - usually, the "mathy" part of it), and I know that I could do well in Physics if I applied myself - that is to say that I know I could do well in the subject area itself.

    The workplace, as you mention, is where it sometimes gets difficult for INTP's. Indeed, it is a whole different issue from the subject matter. I have learned something about myself in recent years. I do not enjoy structure of any kind when it comes from someone else. If we impose some sort of structure on ourselves, that's OK, but we don't want to be on someone else's agenda. We're not 9-to-5 types.

    At one point, I was going to get my Ph.D. and do research for the rest of my life because I thought it would fit me well, but I absolutely cringed at the idea of "being institutionalized" - being a part of the big university where I was expected to do A, B, and C in order to be a considered a good boy. If I'm "expected" by someone to do A, B, and C then I naturally start looking at X, Y, and Z. It's hard to explain. I think it's an innate need to be "original" or something. We want to do our own thing. Set our own rules. Be free of expectations and boundaries imposed by others. Our boundaries, or the territory that we wish to operate in and study/investigate are usually larger and wider than one single subject or some idea or box that someone may choose to put us in. We are all over the map, so to speak and any attempt to limit that freedom can sometimes feel suffocating for us.

    Most INTP's could be competent in the field of Physics. Just like with any other "job", however, they will often find themselves feeling limited or confined within a year or two. And that's not about the "physics". It would be the same as an economics researcher, a chemist, a math researcher, etc.

    I believe, that for me anyways, I was born to be an entrepreneur. It provides the vast freedom that I desire and the most room for pure creativity. Not creativity within the confines of an institution or the confines of my bosses expectations, but true creativity where there are very few limitations to what I can dream up and attempt to do. I even thought about becoming a researcher in the field of Business Admin/Entrepreneurship, but that's the same thing (to me) as being a physics researcher. It limits my scope, narrows the fields in which I can operate, and it puts a boss (or a system) over me. I don't want any part of it.

    Of course, entrepreneurship presents its own challenges for the INTP - namely that we think it would serve us well in business to be more outgoing like our ENTP kin. Still though, I'd rather fight through that/learn to overcome it when necessary and have the freedom to explore and create that I desire than to be confined to "one field". After 2 years in any one "field" or "job" that I've ever worked in, I was already over it and ready for something new and exciting. Many entrepreneurs/CEO's, contrary to popular belief, are actually introverted anyhow. Social misfits? Sometimes. But we're also very resourceful and good at finding new and innovative avenues to carry out what we want to do (if we really want to do it in the first place).

  4. #14

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    I thought about entrepreneurship for a while, but I am definitely more of a lab gnome than a people person.

    If I could be an entrepreneur who had someone else to be "the face" of the company (any volunteers?), and still someone else to handle the accounting (I can do it but I wouldn't like it), I think I would like it.

    I'll likely end up as a post doc doing research in physics, instead. I am sort of OK with that. I'll just rent a cheap place, and have cereal, and sandwiches for my meals...and marry some who doesn't mind that, or makes good money herself.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  5. #15
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    If I could be an entrepreneur who had someone else to be "the face" of the company (any volunteers?), and still someone else to handle the accounting (I can do it but I wouldn't like it), I think I would like it.
    I believe this is the exact reason that most INTP's don't go into entrepreneurship. These are obstacles that can be overcome though. You can hire a great people person to help you with creating a "face" for the company. And you can hire an accountant. But, of course, it's not for everyone.

    I'll likely end up as a post doc doing research in physics, instead. I am sort of OK with that. I'll just rent a cheap place, and have cereal, and sandwiches for my meals...and marry some who doesn't mind that, or makes good money herself.
    ENTJ's? Ladies? Anyone want to date my friend ygolo?

  6. #16
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    i love physics... while admittedly i dont know alot about the technical stuff... not yet... but the concept of physics and the understanding that comes with it and the fact how little we know about it and how much there is to discover and all those theories, patterns in the universe... oh GOD YES!!!!

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I'll likely end up as a post doc doing research in physics, instead. I am sort of OK with that. I'll just rent a cheap place, and have cereal, and sandwiches for my meals...and marry some who doesn't mind that, or makes good money herself.
    I don't know about the US, but post-docs here make quite good money. If I didn't need the people part, academic would have been a good career.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    i'll go all theoretical on you but i'd say istp, intp, intj and entp
    Most ISTP I've met love to talk about quantum mechanics. It's very "odd"


  9. #19
    Senior Member Scott N Denver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noigmn View Post
    I don't know about the US, but post-docs here make quite good money. If I didn't need the people part, academic would have been a good career.
    I've seen 30k-65K depending where you post doc, national labs and military labs being at the upper end of that range.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Scott N Denver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sLiPpY View Post
    Most ISTP I've met love to talk about quantum mechanics. It's very "odd"

    Hmm, I have yet to meet an ISTP who likes talking about QM, and my last place had 2 of them,, one earning a masters and the other already had a PhD.
    Personally I avoid said topic like the plague, unless it comes up some other way or I am cracking sad pick-up lines with it [like say at work when we are joking around, NOT in bars and stuff]

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