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  1. #21
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    It is important to view education as a primarily self-motivated experience.
    Definitely. Instead we have a large number of unmotivated people getting shuffled into college right after high school that either end up dropping out or switching their major 3 times and wasting a lot of money. Of course this doesn't matter in places like Denmark that have free higher education.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    No, it's a place where you get the OPPORTUNITY to learn. If you knew absolutely nothing about the subject to start with, wouldn't you agree that it would give you an idea of where to start? Historically, information wasn't as accessible as it is today, and having access to a university was mostly valuable because it gave you access to their libraries and professors. It wasn't really about the classes (though those were held to give people the basics) so much as independent study and collaboration with other people who understood the field. The emphasis on the actual classes came later.

    But honestly, the whole point of college these days is what High School used to be. Basically, to prove that you're:

    1. Not completely incompetent.
    2. Were able to procure a route to college.
    3. Can understand on a very basic level what you're doing.
    4. Can perform well consistently enough to meet the criteria for grades and a diploma.

    Perferably with other things on your plate like extracurricular activities. The assumption is that once you've proven that, you'll have to build on your education yourself through experience to actually understand the subject. College is about proving your ability to meet other people's expectations consistently, not understand the subject. They just don't say that because it would sound too arrogant if they said it outright.

    But the fact is, it does tend to weed out people who can't figure out how to get things done, and employers like that because they don't want to waste time with people who struggle to get things done.

    I wish I'd known that earlier, then I would have started planning for college in high school. But the teachers made college sound so challenging/competitive that I was discouraged from trying. Ironically, it was probably intended to psyche me up for the challenge, but it had the opposite effect.
    Man, I agree so much with what you wrote it's scary. Especially the part about thinking college would be uber competitive in high school, so it discouraged you from thinking about it. That's exactly what happened to me.

    I also learned the hard way that in college they don't care about the innermost details of the craft in many cases, simply whether or not you can follow directions the way they want.

    I did pretty well in college but I didn't understand how to play the game, so I worked harder than most of my classmates. As a result, I did well (almost always A's and B's) but did not graduate with honors for some reason (I wonder if it was a mistake sometimes). Then again, I got 2 or 3 C's freshman year in required courses I hated and a C second semester sophomore year and 2nd semester senior year (also in requirements I hated) so maybe it was that. In any case, that doesn't matter now.

    Being efficient was always a struggle for me. I liked to know the ins-and-outs of everything, and school never seemed to really be about that. It seemed to say, "Yeah, if you can pull that off, good for you, but I'd rather you just do what I want you to." I thought my professors would appreciate my deep dedication and pursuit of knowledge, but they actually didn't really care that much in most cases. They appreciated my work ethic but seemed to feel (whether they'd admit it or not) that any deep understanding I was searching for was extraneous.

    College is really more of a business than a nurturing learning environment. But, you can get quite a bit out of it at the same time.
    A hero is someone who does the right thing without expectation of reward, just because it's the right thing to do.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    Further information about the differences between CDA and the USA:
    Canada's university attendance rate hovers around 25% of the population; USA's rate is in the range of 70-80% (I forget the exact statistic).
    I thought around 50% of the US population were illiterate (well by any respectable measure), so what are 70-80% doing in universities and what do they get out of it? They can't all play sport.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Winds of Thor's Avatar
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    Some view college as a last captive audience before flight into the real world and work hard to make it a place of mind indoctrination / liberal brainwashing.

    A lot of wimpy liberals find it ideal as a bully pulpit because they know the students are behooved by their getting of grades from professors showing up pre-disposed to suck it up and take it.

    Must make those wimps feel powerful. What a joke. Studies show most everyone learns to think for themselves and discard that garbage over time. Just like a wound heals as a parallel. Over time.

    Yes there are some mean-spirited teachers in the screwel system.

    Other than that straying off context which happens and is given little steering by administrations, most professors stick to their job, teaching the subject you showed up to learn.
    "..And the eight and final rule: If this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight."
    'Men are meant to be with women. The rest is perversion and mental illness.'

  5. #25
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    Even a language major is deceiving because to really become fluent you're going to have to go live there for a while. Ive known more than one person who have majored in French or Italian and they really never actually learned the language in a useful way until they spent time in that country.
    Idk, I've never lived in an english-speaking country, yet I've been able to learn it decently. Although obviously it's much easier to practice english in everyday settings, everywhere, rather than Italian or French.
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  6. #26
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LotsOfHeart View Post
    Being efficient was always a struggle for me. I liked to know the ins-and-outs of everything, and school never seemed to really be about that. It seemed to say, "Yeah, if you can pull that off, good for you, but I'd rather you just do what I want you to." I thought my professors would appreciate my deep dedication and pursuit of knowledge, but they actually didn't really care that much in most cases. They appreciated my work ethic but seemed to feel (whether they'd admit it or not) that any deep understanding I was searching for was extraneous.
    I don't want to offend anyone, but...most professors either seem to be jaded, thinking that everybody doesn't give a shit about the subject matter - if you've done something well (like a paper), you likely have copied from somewhere. Or - and that's worse - over the years they've come to feel intellectually superior or whatever, so they think basically all students are stupid in comparison to them. Third option: they don't want too much competition.
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  7. #27
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Just popping in to say:

    No, not really - for a great deal of reasons.

    1. People hold you back.
    2. It's designed to fit the norm.
    3. Most people couldn't give a shit about anything but beer.
    4. Some professors are assholes/not motivated.
    5. People focus on the wrong target.
    6. Students are too immature to take shit seriously.

    My guess is that it's more about:

    1. Learning teamwork and bouncing ideas off of others.
    2. Learning how to put up with a load of bull.
    3. Learning how to make a load of bull sound like cool shit.
    4. Using it as a stepping stone to bigger and better things.
    5. Achieving goals that require college/university as a means.
    6. Proving that you can stick to shit, recognize goals, and achieve something.
    7. Putting up with asshole people.
    8. Develop a goal-oriented mindset.
    9. Doing shitty jobs so that you stick to uni because you know what's coming if you eff up.
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

  8. #28
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    Just popping in to say:

    No, not really - for a great deal of reasons.

    1. People hold you back.
    2. It's designed to fit the norm.
    3. Most people couldn't give a shit about anything but beer.
    4. Some professors are assholes/not motivated.
    5. People focus on the wrong target.
    6. Students are too immature to take shit seriously.

    My guess is that it's more about:

    1. Learning teamwork and bouncing ideas off of others.
    2. Learning how to put up with a load of bull.
    3. Learning how to make a load of bull sound like cool shit.
    4. Using it as a stepping stone to bigger and better things.
    5. Achieving goals that require college/university as a means.
    6. Proving that you can stick to shit, recognize goals, and achieve something.
    7. Putting up with asshole people.
    8. Develop a goal-oriented mindset.
    9. Doing shitty jobs so that you stick to uni because you know what's coming if you eff up.
    Wow... what an ignorant comment. So you're saying that any doctor you've met didn't go to college to learn? What if someone wanted to become an engineer, doctor or scientist. They have to learn to become one in college. Am I correct? It seems you're stereotyping colleges and students based on what you see in the movies.

  9. #29
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingkatsuki View Post
    Wow... what an ignorant comment. So you're saying that any doctor you've met didn't go to college to learn? What if someone wanted to become an engineer, doctor or scientist. They have to learn to become one in college. Am I correct? It seems you're stereotyping colleges and students based on what you see in the movies.
    *sigh* Yes, I am so ignorant - oh, so ignorant. Please educate me. :rolli:

    First, I was being facetious. If I actually believed all that, I surely would not have studied and I sure as hell wouldn't have gone into teaching and academia, but whatever....

    In essence what I was trying to say is that it can be really frustrating in school and university on a number of different levels, of course.

    Does that mean no one should study? Of course not. It's just a shame that education has not turned out to be the ideal it can be. And, yes, it has indeed dropped in its standards, which can be frustrating and annoying for those who really take education seriously.

    What I was hyperbolizing is true only to a degree. Sure, you have to BS a bit, and you have to deal with jerks, and you also have to learn how to deal with people.

    However, if I hadn't studied, I would not have had the opportunity to go to Germany, to teach, or to do any of the things I enjoy.

    I'm quite surprised that a man of your aptitude took my comment 100% on face value, but perhaps you're kidding around a bit as well.
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Unless your an engineer, or some other crazy math or science major, you don't learn that much of anything.
    heh!

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