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  1. #11
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Yeah, Colleges and Universities often have large libraries. That's where you can learn.
    This is the sort of thing that crossed my mind.

    It is important to view education as a primarily self-motivated experience. There are a couple of things that can place students in conflict with the system. The first issue can be that the system is too regimented, archaic, or in some way does not maximize learning or do enough of a job tailoring it to each student. The second problem can come when a person goes to college with their skill level and perception of that skill at the same level. When asked to approach things differently there is resistance because there can be an assumption that they know enough already. I don't want to say this is always the case because there can definitely be problems with the system, but I have seen it from both sides of the coin, and there can be a real issue with freshmen coming in with a kind of assumed mastery that isn't realistic. They can get pretty angry if anything conflicts with this view.

    The class I taught with this greatest inherent conflict was in music - freshman ear-training. Kids come in having played in a band that won state competitions, having been given a lot of attention for their solo performances at their churches, having gained admiration as talented. Since there is little or no pre-college preparation in theory and skills, they can enter a college ear-training class without the ability to sing a triad. Because they already won prizes without being able to sing a chord in tune or hear it, the assumption is that the curriculum is flawed. How to communicate that the system can help them develop more well-rounded skills that will take down barriers they presently can't see? Sometimes it is not possible, and the mindset of rebellion halts their ability to learn and they remain at their current level.

    If preparing for a career in the creative arts, realize that employers can interrupt a natural, personal process just as certainly as any instructor, so even that might be the true lesson. I have heard of creative arts teachers that use uninspired methods, but there are equal problems with resistance from students based on limited assumptions. The best I know to do is take whatever is given and do the best you can with it. There is something that can be learned in each context.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  2. #12
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blanclait View Post
    I'm a 1st year at Ryerson, Canada for Fashion Design (4-yr program)
    It's important to note that there is a major cultural clash here with the Americans when you use the terms college and university. Canadians know that "college" means "trade school," whereas when an American uses the term they can be referring to a classy university institution, but there is more to it than just this difference.

    The end result is that our universities are (theoretically) completely unrelated to careers, and about knowledge for its own sake, which the USA certainly also has in abundance, but they are grouped into the entire post-secondary category (it's just the language here, not the quality differences). Ryerson University is "career focused," which is the antithesis of the university term meant in Canada, and the exception that proves the rule--your program is not meant for anything but to place you in a career. There's nothing wrong at all about this, but it's simply unrelated to the "university experience."

    Further information about the differences between CDA and the USA:
    Canada's university attendance rate hovers around 25% of the population; USA's rate is in the range of 70-80% (I forget the exact statistic). The history of it goes back to when the USA government paid the tuition for many soldiers who served their time to attend university (in the 1960s-ish), which basically opened the doors for a lot of minorities (socioeconomically, but also racially, because before that university was pretty much just a privileged white person scene) and changed the tenor of what post-secondary education was about in the USA.
    Whereas in Canada, that change never really happened as a movement but rather individuals who weren't rich white kids began to enter university programs, so our universities didn't have a movement to respond to, so our universities didn't change much at all.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  3. #13
    Senior Member Habba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingkatsuki View Post
    I disagree. I'd agree to this only in certain colleges.

    I'm in college and I know exactly what I want and college is just one way to get it. It helps a lot. I'm not there to study. I'm there to become what I want to be.

    For example: Someone wants to become a doctor to help people. You can't be a doctor without going through medical college. You'd be sent to court if you perform a surgery without a medical degree.

    So, yea... Your statement works with only certain colleges.
    Of course, you can't perform certain professions without a formal education. And whole lot of employers will only see you through your achievements at studying.

    But when you want to master your trade, the teachings of colleges/universities aren't really optimal. They are meant to reach out for as many people as possible with the least amount of effort required.
    "The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine."
    -Nikola Tesla

  4. #14
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    ^ Yes. When it comes to trade I agree.

  5. #15
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    Further information about the differences between CDA and the USA:
    Canada's university attendance rate hovers around 25% of the population; USA's rate is in the range of 70-80% (I forget the exact statistic). The history of it goes back to when the USA government paid the tuition for many soldiers who served their time to attend university (in the 1960s-ish), which basically opened the doors for a lot of minorities (socioeconomically, but also racially, because before that university was pretty much just a privileged white person scene) and changed the tenor of what post-secondary education was about in the USA.
    Whereas in Canada, that change never really happened as a movement but rather individuals who weren't rich white kids began to enter university programs, so our universities didn't have a movement to respond to, so our universities didn't change much at all.
    Thank you. Very interesting.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  6. #16
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    In college you learn about yourself. You also learn about others.

    Unless your an engineer, or some other crazy math or science major, you don't learn that much of anything.

  7. #17
    . Blank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    In college you learn about yourself. You also learn about others.

    Unless your an engineer, or some other crazy math or science major, you don't learn that much of anything.
    Yeah, I haven't learned to read ANY kanji characters in my Japanese major or any piece of grammar. /sarcasm


    College is what you make of it.
    Ti = 19 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Te = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ne = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fi = 15 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Si = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ni = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Se = 11[][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fe = 0

    -----------------
    Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
    Man got to sit and wonder why, why, why;
    Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
    Man got to tell himself he understand

  8. #18
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    Thank you. Very interesting.
    I didn't realize this until I took composition studies--in Canada, we don't have First Year Composition (created to bridge the gap as a remedial course because of the 1960s movement that brought in new demographics into universities), because our education system never changed from being kinda elitist in attitude. Admitted students were either kids from privileged backgrounds who already had "proper" reading and writing training, or really bright individuals from underprivileged backgrounds fought their way through on their own.

    Of course over time this is changing, but the USA had a mass movement that required action, and there was no equivalent movement in Canada.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  9. #19
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    In college you learn about yourself. You also learn about others.

    Unless your an engineer, or some other crazy math or science major, you don't learn that much of anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blank View Post
    Yeah, I haven't learned to read ANY kanji characters in my Japanese major or any piece of grammar. /sarcasm


    College is what you make of it.
    i completely agree with disco. the only majors where you actually learn something from the material itself:

    -engineering, math, physics, chemistry

    Even a language major is deceiving because to really become fluent you're going to have to go live there for a while. Ive known more than one person who have majored in French or Italian and they really never actually learned the language in a useful way until they spent time in that country.

    I apologize ahead of time if you take offense to this. if it helps: my two majors mean nothing unless you have a PhD in them...

  10. #20
    Senior Member blanclait's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blank View Post
    Yeah, I haven't learned to read ANY kanji characters in my Japanese major or any piece of grammar. /sarcasm


    College is what you make of it.
    well this varies per skill level as well. I for one learned how to draw croquis before I entered university.
    So for me, their ineffective method of making us trace figures is laughable and not to mention time consuming. Sure I got few tips and here and there. If i put more time into these projects, sure I'll learn a lot more.

    But, if I just went back to my old art studio, I can learn A LOT more in shorter time more effectively. On top of that, I can change the project to focus on my weaknesses.

    And
    I don't believe this "you get what you put in."
    it implies a wrong message. That you can fish out equal knowledge/experience, etc in whatever you do and whichever method you choose.

    that is obviously false.

    you get what you put in of what that course is offering.
    and even if you put same amount of effort, what you get out of it will differ per every class.

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