My Professor: Getting him fired

[lost verses]

These kind of condescending comments en-fucking-rage me. He's treated unfairly it offends his idealistic ideas about justice and he's actually willing to do something about it. Now I don't approve of his methods or even his pay-back ideas, but I refuse to subscribe to the idea that you should just put your head in the sand and roll over. If an employer treats me in a grossly unfair way persistently, I'm outta there after having spoken my mind. I've confronted "superiors" before and I will continue to do so.

I too was in a situation where a first-time lecturer screwed me over, not grading according to his handouts etc. etc. he ended up giving me the same weak argument: stuff in the "world out there" isn't fair either. If it's all about the real world and sucking it up and cooperating with other (weaker) people then adjust the way you grade, and don't focus exclusively on the academic stuff. IFJ I think...Fe user in some form, introverted. Horrible at teaching - which I can understand and which is why I cooperated a lot. He also put very little effort into it all, however. The format of the class was very poorly made. I e-mailed him about my grades and gave him a well thought-out negative evaluation (before I knew my grade). He did not teach the course the year after that.

It's very easy to be all casually jaded about it. A lot of people seem to be. That kind of apathy makes me sad. It's not wrong to care and be actively committed to improvement.

I think you have your facts wrong, in the bolded part. I am IFJ (infj) and would never ever, ever in a million years out there say something like "suck it up the real world isn't fair either". That's completely not in my nature to say that. So...try retyping him.

Also, to the thread starter: Why in the world did you sign up for 3 classes with the same damn professor? I'd say drop some of them now and just know better next semester to not do shit like that again, lol.

 

[Jaguar]

The details:

• OP violated social norms of respecting others' time when asking for advice on a forum by failing to provide enough context with which to respond to their OP
• OP failed to realize that they failed to do this, and in fact contested the objective of this norm several times when called on it
• OP failed to realize after dozens of posts that people were taking his "humour" seriously, and failed to communicate effectively that he was exaggerating for us strangers
• OP attacked character of another person (legitimate action in and of itself)
• OP failed to support said stance with reasons to support his opinion for several dozen posts

If an individual is gathering a few facts about the OP, it is that they are either oblivious to or rebellious of social norms. Someone oblivious to or rebellious of social norms is going to either unknowingly or knowingly annoy individuals who value social norms. Like, a professor who just spent 25 years earning his title.

These actions call into question the OP's ability to accurately perceive situations. If one begins with the belief that an individual has issues with accurately narrating reality, it is logical that the same individual's narration of reality in another instance is flawed.

There's more reason to question why you had faith in the OP than why others lacked faith in the OP.

The obsessive pedantry in your posts, is palpable.
You have serious issues which need to be resolved.

 

[FDG]

You need to swallow this kind of stuff. Everybody has had a "particular" professor in his university experience. If your gpa plummets...well, amen, gpa's not everything in life. You already have your little plan laid out for your life, which is nice, but you will have to deal with many situations like this if you want to start your own company (clients give you money, thus are often quite exacting on what they want you to do): better learn now.

The grading standards of the college is all equal which mean that if I produce equally good work to someone with a different teacher. That person gets a 9/10 and I get a 5/10

This happens every day, in every university. Luck is a part of life; you can still transfer if you don't like it.

By the way, the situation in an employment setting is different. Obviously you can't be trated like crap by an employer...it's against the law.

 

[Thalassa]

He just sounds like he's a terrible teacher. See, professors don't necessarily take classes to learn how to teach. They just become experts in their field often without ever studying education or pedagogy; this is why the lot of them are wankers, especially new ones. Academia is a little island unto itself. Anyone who has just emerged from the ivory tower of earning a PhD with no real teaching experience or classes in how to actually be a teacher isn't necessarily going to excel at imparting his or her knowledge to others. I was shocked to learn when I got to college that elementary, middle, and high school teachers actually spend more time being educated on how to actually teach students than college professors.

He's trying too hard. He's an ivory tower wanker. There's nothing you can do about it. Just give him what he wants, jump through his self-congratulatory hoops, and never take his classes again after this semester.

You're a grown up. Just accept that getting him fired is probably not the most realistic or mature course of action.

 

[Oaky]

Assuming that teaching you classes is his "main" job is your first error and shows that you don't really know much about how college works. This is one reason I (and many others) can't take your posts seriously. The way a University makes a name isn't just by how well the professors teach.

You mean a passable teacher, not professor. Please look into what this means. Some of the best professors really SUCK at teaching.

I am not familiar with these subjects, perhaps I'm incorrect, but I would imagine you would want someone who is doing architectural design to be able to follow your instructions. You will not be out in the workforce just "being creative."

I know how my college works. I've been through a lot in my college. Bad teachers, bad situations, stuck here and there. This helped me learn quite a bit about what's going on. The thing is that I usually find solutions to my problems sometimes going through narrow cracks and underground pathways. Now, this problem has hit me hard and it's like I'm drowning fighting my way to go back to the surface but can't.

First of all, no one at your university really cares if you aren't getting the grades you want. Second of all, if all the grades are in that range I smell a curve coming on. Have you asked if there is a curve?

Other students care about their grades too. I'm more concerned with my future possibilities which will be lowered if I don't do well in these subjects. I can work 24/7 and the guy would still give me a 6.

You need to spend your time doing things that can help your grade, help him transition, help you get a curve. Not spend your time trying to get him fired. You are putting your eggs in the wrong basket.

Although you are right in that I probably shouldn't be wasting my time firing him. I believe that he deserves to be fired. He has caused too much suffering in all his classes. Not only to me, but to my classmates too. This man gives the possibility of a life changing difference to the worse.

Right. Creative architecture has first of all to be based on a design brief. Unless you want the whole house of bricks to come tumbling down.

Creativity, in most subjects.. but architecture most of all.. one must first know what the rules are, before one can break them.

Architecture is putting creativity in an order. There are no particular rules to how one should do it. If the end result is the same anything goes.

You need to swallow this kind of stuff. Everybody has had a "particular" professor in his university experience. If your gpa plummets...well, amen, gpa's not everything in life.

By the way, the situation in an employment setting is different. Obviously you can't be trated like crap by an employer...it's against the law.

I see him 4 times a week. And he teaches me 3 very important subjects. This is not GPA at this point, it's my future.

 

[Oaky]

He just sounds like he's a terrible teacher. See, professors don't necessarily take classes to learn how to teach. They just become experts in their field often without ever studying education or pedagogy; this is why the lot of them are wankers, especially new ones. Academia is a little island unto itself. Anyone who has just emerged from the ivory tower of earning a PhD with no real teaching experience or classes in how to actually be a teacher isn't necessarily going to excel at imparting his or her knowledge to others. I was shocked to learn when I got to college that elementary, middle, and high school teachers actually spend more time being educated on how to actually teach students than college professors.

He's trying too hard. He's an ivory tower wanker. There's nothing you can do about it. Just give him what he wants, jump through his self-congratulatory hoops, and never take his classes again after this semester.

You're a grown up. Just accept that getting him fired is probably not the most realistic or mature course of action.

I'm not necessarily a practical person. I've done things before.

Hahaha! Ivory town wanker. Beautiful. Thanks for the post. Lightened me up a bit.

 

[nomadic]

well, if a professor has to teach 3 undergrad classes, he's obviously not going to be a well known researcher. Like discovering insights that will be a benefit to the world. Thats what a real professor is supposed to do.

If a professor isn't smart enough to do that, they should at least be able to teach effectively, fun, get students excited, inspired, etc...

If they cant' do either of the above, then they sucked some booties to get to where they are.

Either way, thats the way life is. There's a lot of ppl in life who get where they are bc they suck up and don't provide any real usefulness to the organization or to the world. If u need the grade, u'll do whats asked of you and excel at it.

 

[Thalassa]

well, if a professor has to teach 3 undergrad classes, he's obviously not going to be a well known researcher. Like discovering insights that will be a benefit to the world. Thats what a real professor is supposed to do.

If a professor isn't smart enough to do that, they should at least be able to teach effectively, fun, get students excited, inspired, etc...

If they cant' do either of the above, then they sucked some booties to get to where they are.

Either way, thats the way life is. There's a lot of ppl in life who get where they are bc they suck up and don't provide any real usefulness to the organization or to the world. If u need the grade, u'll do whats asked of you and excel at it.

Er, actually...getting a PhD is REALLY HARD. You have to write and be published in order to be a professsor. Then you have to keep publishing to keep your job.

Professors are not necessarily stupid, but they can certainly lack the skills, personality, or inclination to be good teachers even if they are experts in their field. A new professor is not going to be "a well known researcher." At my college an average professor teaches four undergraduate classes per semester.

I'm not defending this person at all, but at the same time some perspective would be nice.

 

[nomadic]

Er, actually...getting a PhD is REALLY HARD. You have to write and be published in order to be a professsor. Then you have to keep publishing to keep your job.

Professors are not necessarily stupid, but they can certainly lack the skills, personality, or inclination to be good teachers even if they are experts in their field. A new professor is not going to be "a well known researcher." At my college an average professor teaches four undergraduate classes per semester.

I'm not defending this person at all, but at the same time some perspective would be nice.

A lot of professors aren't expected to publish though. If you look at the lower tiered Ivies like Dartmouth without a graduate program, are those kind of professors really expected to publish?

If you teach a lot of undergrad classes, and not grad, then basically you're expected to teach, and not publish for the most part. Correct?

You don't have to publish to get a PhD. You just have a write a thesis that helps out your thesis advisors out in their research.

I think if you believe that the PhD system is set up to promote the best possible researchers and ground breaking thinkers, you are mistaken. Its more geared towards who studies the most and provides the most value to the current faculty. Which aren't necessarily the same thing. I will take it back if it is a math or physics PhD though, but the more geared towards social studies/sciences you go, the more leeway there is for defending current schools of thought/ways things are entrenched.

 

[Kangol]

If I were genuinely upset at what I considered an irrational methodology of grading by my professor, I'd definitely not rest until I am comfortable with either an acceptable explanation or resolution. I didn't have any such teachers, but my roommate did have one who sounded similar to yours. I told a professor (in the same field) I knew and trusted well about the situation, and if she could help look into the matter, as the terrible one was new and may perhaps need to get accustomed to the normal expectations of grading.

Borrowing on some suggestions others may have said:

Go with a fellow student or two to approach the professor during his office hours, and prepare questions you want answers to, like what his expectations are and why you didn't meet them. If his answers are unacceptable, push him to clarify and question his reasoning with your own arguments. Do not lose your cool; if anything, try to get him to lose his cool, as this is evidence that he is not capable of explaining things calmly and rationally. Do not leave until you are satisfied.
If he will not talk to you, ask why.
a. If it's because you're a group, say that you all have the same issue, and that he will be talked to regardless.
b. If it's because he has no time, tell him he has to make time.
c. If it's because he doesn't want to explain to you, talk to the dean and/or department chairs. Ask your other professors who are more trustworthy about their suggestions on handling the situation, and how best to get your concern addressed.

If you feel it necessary (i.e. can't trust the guy to keep his word), use a recording device. Let him know you're using it and start the recording before you even talk. Get whatever he says recorded, which works out great if he refuses to talk to you. If he asks why you're resorting to using such methods, it's because you're concerned for your grade and taking the situation very seriously. Again, don't leave until you're satisfied with either the explanation or the resolution. If negotiating with the professor proves fruitless or impossible, demand that someone higher up mediate a discussion between you (and other students) and the professor, as drastically unfair grades are a concern to the well-being of students and the integrity of the department. You may change your mind about the situation, or you may get what you want. Either way, at least you'll have done what you should.

I'm guessing that you may be faced with a statement like "well it's already far into the semester and it's too late to change your grades, deal with it", and say that trying to find out what's going on and demanding answers -is- dealing with it.


That said, you have to be sure in your conviction that your concerns are legitimate, and keep a professional disposition about it. Have good questions and good negotiating skills. Unfortunately we can't help with the formation of those questions since there's little specifics to work with here. Try to see his reasoning, and work with it, and attempt a reconciliation of views.


But first of all, like someone else said, there may be a curve involved. Find out if this is the case, and if so, that should suffice for you, unless there is obvious favoritism.

 

[Oaky]

If I were genuinely upset at what I considered an irrational methodology of grading by my professor, I'd definitely not rest until I am comfortable with either an acceptable explanation or resolution. I didn't have any such teachers, but my roommate did have one who sounded similar to yours. I told a professor (in the same field) I knew and trusted well about the situation, and if she could help look into the matter, as the terrible one was new and may perhaps need to get accustomed to the normal expectations of grading.

Borrowing on some suggestions others may have said:

Go with a fellow student or two to approach the professor during his office hours, and prepare questions you want answers to, like what his expectations are and why you didn't meet them. If his answers are unacceptable, push him to clarify and question his reasoning with your own arguments. Do not lose your cool; if anything, try to get him to lose his cool, as this is evidence that he is not capable of explaining things calmly and rationally. Do not leave until you are satisfied.
If he will not talk to you, ask why.
a. If it's because you're a group, say that you all have the same issue, and that he will be talked to regardless.
b. If it's because he has no time, tell him he has to make time.
c. If it's because he doesn't want to explain to you, talk to the dean and/or department chairs. Ask your other professors who are more trustworthy about their suggestions on handling the situation, and how best to get your concern addressed.

If you feel it necessary (i.e. can't trust the guy to keep his word), use a recording device. Let him know you're using it and start the recording before you even talk. Get whatever he says recorded, which works out great if he refuses to talk to you. If he asks why you're resorting to using such methods, it's because you're concerned for your grade and taking the situation very seriously. Again, don't leave until you're satisfied with either the explanation or the resolution. If negotiating with the professor proves fruitless or impossible, demand that someone higher up mediate a discussion between you (and other students) and the professor, as drastically unfair grades are a concern to the well-being of students and the integrity of the department. You may change your mind about the situation, or you may get what you want. Either way, at least you'll have done what you should.

I'm guessing that you may be faced with a statement like "well it's already far into the semester and it's too late to change your grades, deal with it", and say that trying to find out what's going on and demanding answers -is- dealing with it.


That said, you have to be sure in your conviction that your concerns are legitimate, and keep a professional disposition about it. Have good questions and good negotiating skills. Unfortunately we can't help with the formation of those questions since there's little specifics to work with here. Try to see his reasoning, and work with it, and attempt a reconciliation of views.


But first of all, like someone else said, there may be a curve involved. Find out if this is the case, and if so, that should suffice for you, unless there is obvious favoritism.

What you said is very good advice. I know it was said before and it's perhaps the most reasonable thing to do but the teacher is mental
We went to him and told him to his face he was being unfair to our grades. We insisted he remark our work. When he talks to us he gets irritated and insisting on it he says "I can't help you anymore" and he walks away.
Continuous insisting on this person gets him shouting at you. Me and many people from my class tried to talk to him. He gets angry.

For the explain 'x' and do 'y' I'm going to try the idea of recording what he says. I doubt the teacher would allow it though. He'll put me through hell for the rest of the semester.

 

[Oaky]

well, if a professor has to teach 3 undergrad classes, he's obviously not going to be a well known researcher. Like discovering insights that will be a benefit to the world. Thats what a real professor is supposed to do.

If a professor isn't smart enough to do that, they should at least be able to teach effectively, fun, get students excited, inspired, etc...

If they cant' do either of the above, then they sucked some booties to get to where they are.

Either way, thats the way life is. There's a lot of ppl in life who get where they are bc they suck up and don't provide any real usefulness to the organization or to the world. If u need the grade, u'll do whats asked of you and excel at it.

sounds a lot like something he would do.

 

[Argus]

Ragingkatsuki, PM me, we'll talk.


One more thing, can you get your hands on $10k plus expenses??

 

[Oaky]

^ Not so easily

 

[Usehername]

If you teach a lot of undergrad classes, and not grad, then basically you're expected to teach, and not publish for the most part. Correct?

You don't have to publish to get a PhD. You just have a write a thesis that helps out your thesis advisors out in their research.

Completely incorrect.

Where is this information from? I am at an undergrad-only university with an emphasis on teaching, and every one of my professors required several publications and numerous conference presentations before they were hired as fresh PhDs, and they are required to publish a lot while teaching as faculty, especially if they have any desire to gain tenure. I'm planning on entering academia, and all that I've read tells me this is the norm.

 

[Usehername]

The obsessive pedantry in your posts, is palpable.
You have serious issues which need to be resolved.

I came on strong because when I told the OP factual information a lot more tactfully earlier, he mocked me because he didn't believe it was true. He is either oblivious to or rebellious toward social mores.

If he's oblivious to and rebellious of social norms here, he's also doing it IRL.

This has no bearing on the professor in isolation from the OP, but if the OP is communicating the same way IRL he is digging his own grave. Which I told him politely earlier and he refused to believe.

The OP constructed a terribly weak argument, failing to provide their audience with the proper premises to draw the same conclusion. I read the first few responses from the OP and they again failed to narrate any story convincing their audience of their position. What else can you expect?

I'm not into writing details. I expected people to take my word for it.

That's severely problematic given the objective of your thread.

Ethos.

One should always take care to establish and maintain one's ethos, especially when attempting to disestablish another's ethos. Failing to do so is tantamount to spitting on the established conventions of logic, or, just plain stupid.

 

[Oaky]

^ Please don't assume what I'm like in real life.

 

[Usehername]

Stop being practical. I'm going to take action and get him fired. I need more ideas. I'm thinking I'll do what I said at the end of the OP.

Why must you insist that I talk details? Can't you just take my word for it?

Just to go with it though here's a few things:

1. Usually the average grade grade for assignment hand-ins are 8/10. The best of the best students have gotten a range from 3-6/10 with this guy. He didn't give over a 6. Mind you, assignments are important as they determine 20% of the final grade of the subject.

2. The guy is always right... according to him. Anything you say or submit to him is wrong. It will always be wrong. If I were the most talented guy on the subject that ever lived it would still be wrong. You are wrong even if you are Leonardo Da Vinci.

3. If he explains something and we do it exactly as he says he says it's wrong. Where is the fucking logic in that. He explains 'y' and expects us to do 'x'.

There's much more I can say. I'm just not in the mood put them down.

You can imagine all the negatives of a stereotypical ESTJ and that would be a good description of him.

Well, come on, answer the question. Tell us what he does that's driving you to complain.

Why is he such a bad professor?

There is very little that will be done in the middle of the semester unless there's an extraordinary complaint about him - he never shows up etc... Other than that, if everyone gives him a bad evaluation at the end of the semester, it will show on his record.

Like others have asked, what is he doing/not doing that is causing distress?

Oh cmon. I had profs whose wives were going through chemo and went from totally awesome to pretty much acting like he hated all our guts (and it affected our grades). I had a prof that used to yell "YOU THINK THIS IS BULL S***" at us and "YOU THINK METALLURGY SUCKS, DONT YOU?!?!?!?" We just sat and waited for class to be over.

Unless he is doing something illegal like Happy said you really have no reason to be acting like this.

And just because "everyone wants him fired" doesn't mean he should be fired. This is really college you are talking about?

You mean this? -



Have you considered that you might actually be wrong? Explaining something means that you back it up with evidence that is right in front of you. If you think that he is wrong and present him with that evidence how can he possibly say that it is wrong? You're doing the confronting wrong.

Ok, I'm done with this subject and contributing to your whining.

Yes, I'm wrong. That's why all my peers complain about the same thing as well. They are all wrong too.

He teaches me:

- Landscape Design
- Interior Design
- Architectural Design (5th one)

The three most important subjects of my semester. If I mess up in the first two, I've got little chance to become an interior designer or landscape architect. Now the thing is there are two classes for these subjects. Each have a different teacher. University rules state I'm not allowed to attend any other than my own.

What he is wrong about is dealing with the students in a most arrogant fashion. He will never accept ideas from them. The marks he gives aren't fair at all. A girl cried a few days back because of the mark he gave her. The thing is is that she is brilliant. The top student of the class. The teacher's reply was "she didn't do exactly as I asked" which is of course a load of bull as these subjects are all based on creativity. Also the teacher, when we talk to him likes saying the statement "It's not my problem" when he has the power to change things. There are so many more things I could put down that he does that crosses certain lines of being an at least passable professor.


Thanks for the encouragement. I will keep trying so I can end that cycle.

The professor gives a sheet of steps that we have to do for the next assignment. I swear when we did the assignment exactly as the sheet told us the teacher told us we were wrong and that it should be 'something else'. We showed him the sheet he himself provided to us. And he still insisted that it was wrong without any explanation why. We were like "WTF? It says it right here on the sheet you provided." He said "no, it's still wrong. sorry, you'll lose half your grade" No matter what we explain he is close-minded about it. Very very Stubborn.

Haven't thought of this. Yes, other teachers respect me quite a bit. It would be good if I talked to them about it. The thing though is that it would take a while and I doubt many of the other professors would do anything.

I unfortunately don't have a college web forum.

I'm not into writing details. I expected people to take my word for it.

Because if you haven't established your good character and your fair and reasonably accurate perception of reality (or at least narrated your story in such a way as to lead your audience to believe these things), your audience, by default, presumes a lot of things.

Your audience presumes your character to be in line with the whiny immature brats on junior high television dramas. They presume that instead of handling the bumpy events of life with maturity, that you choose to throw your hands in the air and throw a tantrum.

If you fail to narrate a convincing ethos, your audience presumes you're unequipped to deal with adulthood, and that all of the problems you articulate are projections of your own failures rather than a reflection of anything to do with the authority figure which you fail to see eye to eye with.


The way that you now say, "I sometimes feel as if I'm talking to children trying to guide them through my experiences and thought processes," and the way that you failed to provide any evidence when Elaur asked for it suggests that the problem lies with you more than the problem lies with your professor, which is why a lot of the responses are given with that view.

Yes. You're right. The problem lies with me. I'll do my best to fix it.
I'm fully aware of how my posts sound. They sound arrogant, immature and ignorant. Many apologies for it.

To put things in a simpler form:
That teacher is affecting my future. It is on a semester that is really important to me. That teacher is in charge of 60% of my final grades on the three most important subjects in the semester. Even if I work hard the teacher doesn't give good results. The hardest workers in class get results of below average students. These are some of the reasons I want him fired.

Gross ignorance of the university system and why the guy was hired--to be clear: he's a researcher and writer, and only third or fourth on his job description does "teaching" appear (no big deal) + rolling his eyes at people politely trying to tell him otherwise = a lack of faith in the OP's story as told for the first several dozen posts before editing.

 

[Ivy]

^ Please don't assume what I'm like in real life.

Nobody's assuming anything- they're going on your words.

We went to him and told him to his face he was being unfair to our grades. We insisted he remark our work. When he talks to us he gets irritated and insisting on it he says "I can't help you anymore" and he walks away.
Continuous insisting on this person gets him shouting at you. Me and many people from my class tried to talk to him. He gets angry.

If you ever approached him in a friendly, non-confrontational manner, without "insisting" that he do what you demand, you haven't mentioned it yet. It's really not surprising that a professor (esp. one who isn't such a great teacher, which as Usehername has mentioned is only one aspect of a professor's job) would react that way to students when they approach him with demands.

 

[Oaky]

Gross ignorance of the university system and why the guy was hired--to be clear: he's a researcher and writer, and only third or fourth on his job description does "teaching" appear (no big deal) + rolling his eyes at people politely trying to tell him otherwise = a lack of faith in the OP's story as told for the first several dozen posts before editing.

So you would be totally alright if you had a teacher that treats the whole class like shit and is extremely unfair in grading? I don't care if he is a researcher or knows everything about what he teaches. If he doesn't do the teaching well, he shouldn't teach in the first place.