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Massaging my boss

Tewt

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Seems everyone is forgetting that it's possible he didnt have any ill intent. Regardless, he should find an assistant that is both comfortable and trained in massage... private massages are nothing new, although I'm not sure how they deal with the potential dangers that could arise (maybe keep some pepper spray in your pocket?) He should have also offered contact information for his previous assistant(s) to vouch for him.

I dont think it matters if he had ill intent or not. This is not the kind of thing you can afford to sit around and think that he might be weird, but still be an ok guy. That kind of attitude is what gets young girls in stupid situations.
 

Ivy

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I dont think it matters if he had ill intent or not. This is not the kind of thing you can afford to sit around and think that he might be weird, but still be an ok guy. That kind of attitude is what gets young girls in stupid situations.

Exactly. Sure, there's a chance he's just a dumbass who has no idea how inappropriate this is. Our instincts are there for a reason, and the OP described her "alert system" going off about this big-time but she did it anyway.

Cafe made an excellent suggestion--read the book The Gift of Fear by Gavin DeBecker. This is just the kind of thing he talks about. We're socialized to be nice and think the best about people, and we end up second-guessing our instincts. No, they're not always right, but SO many people say "if only I had listened to that little voice" after an assault.
 

Tewt

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I still haven't read that book but I've heard it recommended several times.
 

TickTock

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If you want an easy way out you could tell him your boyfriend found out about the massages (smelled massage-oil on you or something) and despite your assurances that it was all non-sexual etc etc got really jealous. So to placate him you'd like to be excused from massage-duties if it's ok etc etc.

IMO I think it would be better for the OP to make it clear that's it's because she doesn't want to and not because her boyfriend is unhappy about it.

And Tewt is right on the nail.
 

Spamtar

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IMO I think it would be better for the OP to make it clear that's it's because she doesn't want to and not because her boyfriend is unhappy about it.

And Tewt is right on the nail.

I tend to disagree unless she is going to quit. Indirect "softeners" like I can't play poker tonight my wife won't let me. May seem cowardly and somewhat dishonest, yet it makes it much easier on the recipients ego and thus avoids unwanted debate on the issue or overreaction.:yes:
 

Grayscale

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I dont think it matters if he had ill intent or not. This is not the kind of thing you can afford to sit around and think that he might be weird, but still be an ok guy. That kind of attitude is what gets young girls in stupid situations.

And the advice everyone has given this person is the kind of thing that could get her to throw away a perfectly good job for no reason. that is the problem with our instincts... they are only ours and only consider the situation from one side.

in fact, YOUR feelings have caused you to look over even the facts of this person's feelings. let's look again:

Well, I'm not sure what to make of my situation.

He presented the massaging portion of the job as an option

He was very nice about it and kept making sure I was comfortable with it.

And I have to admit it was a tiny bit shocking seeing this person I'd just met naked, let alone touching him in that state.

I didn't feel as comfortable as I wanted to. I had thoughts of: 'What is my boyfriend going to think', 'or my friends', 'Is this wrong', 'is it my prudish upbringing'.. etc.

Maybe I'm just too concerned with how others would view it. Even though I don't believe that should necessarily be a determining factor.

this does not sound to me like someone who is being sexually manipulated, this sounds like someone who is inexperienced in massage and uncomfortable touching a naked person who they barely know and wondering if they have crossed a line. however, massage therapists do this all the time and dont feel uncomfortable because they are familiar with it.

Isn't that what pedos do to little kids? Like conditioning or some term I can't remember. That seems extremely predatory and gross.

yeah... but this person is not a little kid. little kids arent sexual which is why they can be coerced into that sort of thing, on the contrary this person is already sees the warning signs, what makes you think if her boss pushed it further that she would just let it slide?

yes, if he was sexually manipulating her he would act nice and pretend to care that she was comfortable. however, if he knew it was a touchy thing for people and wanted to be sensitive to that, he would do the same thing. he did offer it as an option, did he not?

which is why i'll say... for his sake, he's probably better off getting someone who is already comfortable with it.
 

swordpath

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This sounds sketchy as hell.

edit:

I see the OP made the decision to quit the position. I say good for you. I believe it's the wise thing to do. You never know if something could have happened or not, but why risk it when you don't have to? Also, you were uncomfortable with it from the get go, and there's no good reason to disregard that feeling considering it was a potentially risky situation. Good luck finding new work.
 

Tewt

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And the advice everyone has given this person is the kind of thing that could get her to throw away a perfectly good job for no reason. that is the problem with our instincts... they are only ours and only consider the situation from one side.

in fact, YOUR feelings have caused you to look over even the facts of this person's feelings. let's look again:



this does not sound to me like someone who is being sexually manipulated, this sounds like someone who is inexperienced in massage and uncomfortable touching a naked person who they barely know and wondering if they have crossed a line. however, massage therapists do this all the time and dont feel uncomfortable because they are familiar with it.



yeah... but this person is not a little kid. little kids arent sexual which is why they can be coerced into that sort of thing, on the contrary this person is already sees the warning signs, what makes you think if her boss pushed it further that she would just let it slide?

yes, if he was sexually manipulating her he would act nice and pretend to care that she was comfortable. however, if he knew it was a touchy thing for people and wanted to be sensitive to that, he would do the same thing. he did offer it as an option, did he not?

which is why i'll say... for his sake, he's probably better off getting someone who is already comfortable with it.

Years of investigating sex crimes.

It was not an option. She emailed him that she didnt want to do the massages anymore and he said he would find someone else to do the job. Basically she couldnt have the job without giving massages.
 

Tewt

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I tend to disagree unless she is going to quit. Indirect "softeners" like I can't play poker tonight my wife won't let me. May seem cowardly and somewhat dishonest, yet it makes it much easier on the recipients ego and thus avoids unwanted debate on the issue or overreaction.:yes:

It also makes the situation secretive. Like he can think well if I just do this or that and no one knows, she will be ok with it and won't say anything.
 

Grayscale

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Years of investigating sex crimes.

It was not an option. She emailed him that she didnt want to do the massages anymore and he said he would find someone else to do the job. Basically she couldnt have the job without giving massages.

I respect your expertise on the subject, but your experience has only been with situations like this where the guy is a sick pervert. I'm actually not suprised most people responded the way we did, the media constantly preys on our fears, especially the fear of our own complacency.

I don't find the boss' response suprising either... she agreed to the position then later changed her mind. My guess is he has probably dealt with this same reaction before and wants an assistant who is comfortable with it, finding someone else would certainly be easier. Still, I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to have an assistant who can also perform his daily massage if that is in fact all he wants.

I can't say she made the wrong decision, it was definately the safer choice. I just want to point out the heavy confirmation bias here.
 

Tewt

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I don't think it has anything to do with the media. If OP was not uncomfortable she would have never posted it here. She ignored herself.
 

Orangey

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I respect your expertise on the subject, but your experience has only been with situations like this where the guy is a sick pervert. I'm actually not suprised most people responded the way we did, the media constantly preys on our fears, especially the fear of our own complacency.

I don't find the boss' response suprising either... she agreed to the position then later changed her mind. My guess is he has probably dealt with this same reaction before and wants an assistant who is comfortable with it, finding someone else would certainly be easier. Still, I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to have an assistant who can also perform his daily massage if that is in fact all he wants.

I can't say she made the wrong decision, it was definately the safer choice. I just want to point out the heavy confirmation bias here.

Well it's just the general shadiness of the whole thing...like why, if he has suffered multiple injuries to the leg, does he need a whole body massage? Why doesn't he have a professional do that (and don't give me that money crap...there are real risks for all parties involved with just getting someone off of the street to work on your injured limbs)? And why didn't he tell her this right off of the bat? And why does it have to happen alone at his place? And why, if the massaging was so optional, did he not keep her on? Why doesn't he just say from the beginning that he won't hire someone unless they are willing to give the massages? What is the purpose of having the "optional" part in there when it is in fact not optional?

All of these little inconsistencies and the lack of straightforwardness make me think this guy is not to be trusted.
 

Grayscale

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Well it's just the general shadiness of the whole thing...like why, if he has suffered multiple injuries to the leg, does he need a whole body massage? Why doesn't he have a professional do that (and don't give me that money crap...there are real risks for all parties involved with just getting someone off of the street to work on your injured limbs)? And why didn't he tell her this right off of the bat? And why does it have to happen alone at his place? And why, if the massaging was so optional, did he not keep her on? Why doesn't he just say from the beginning that he won't hire someone unless they are willing to give the massages? What is the purpose of having the "optional" part in there when it is in fact not optional?

All of these little inconsistencies and the lack of straightforwardness make me think this guy is not to be trusted.

having your assistant do it is more convenient if you arent picky about technique (you think when guys get a massage we know about all that fancy hand work? hell, i just think it's relaxing!) and in general this type of confusion is fairly common when people arent entirely honest about their reasons. some people just aint that smart and dont recognize why honesty is the best policy, and not sensitive enough to see why asking her to start that part of the job when she had just met him is way too soon.

i know im going way out on a limb to defend the guy but i just think it was possible he wasnt going to do anything wrong, cant help it! she was slightly uneasy about the situation just tells me it was an uneasy situation, which it was, i dont see anything about the guy acting "off" (of course im sure some sociopaths have good acting skills, which is scary!)

im know im being way too stubborn, so im just gonna shut up about it now :ninja:
 

Kasper

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but i just think it was possible he wasnt going to do anything wrong

You are absolutely correct with that, it is possible he wasn't going to push it any further, thing is no one but him and maybe his previous PAs know for sure, all anyone else can go off is their knowledge of what is normal and their intuition about the situation, if it wasn't a young female alone, unaware and not a specialist in massage he would get more benefit of the doubt. The potential dangers are too great. This is where I'm coming from v

Ivy said:
Cafe made an excellent suggestion--read the book The Gift of Fear by Gavin DeBecker. This is just the kind of thing he talks about. We're socialized to be nice and think the best about people, and we end up second-guessing our instincts. No, they're not always right, but SO many people say "if only I had listened to that little voice" after an assault.

This is something that affects women more than men, being alone with the wrong man can have dire consequences, we have to listen to our guts if we have a feeling something isn't right and ignore how society has trained us to care about offending others and being polite.
 
T

ThatGirl

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Well, I'm not sure what to make of my situation.

I was recently hired as a personal assistant after over a year of unsuccessfully searching for a job.

My boss mentioned from the very beginning that he's had various leg injuries so he's been receiving massages 7 years now from the assistants he's had. He presented the massaging portion of the job as an option, though, the main duties being filing, light cleaning, and general organizing. So I said yes to that portion of the job, eager to secure the job (and seeing no real problem with it).

So up until recently we'd only communicated with each other through email and over the phone. Today we met in person as a sort of interview to ensure that we were certain we wanted to work together. We met at Starbucks and then went on to the room he rents, in which he has his office. Anyways, I agreed to the massaging and we went through with it. He was very nice about it and kept making sure I was comfortable with it.

But it wasn't until today that I realized it was a full body massage... which is customarily done in the nude. And I have to admit it was a tiny bit shocking seeing this person I'd just met naked, let alone touching him in that state.

Well, I like to think of myself as quite open-minded. But for some reason I didn't feel as comfortable as I wanted to. I had thoughts of: 'What is my boyfriend going to think', 'or my friends', 'Is this wrong', 'is it my prudish upbringing'.. etc.

So I really don't know how I feel about it. It just seems so foreign and potentially taboo that it's confusing me. I think there's nothing wrong with it in theory, so I don't know what the problem is.

Maybe I'm just too concerned with how others would view it. Even though I don't believe that should necessarily be a determining factor.

Anyways, thoughts? reprimands? Perspective please? :thinking:

:yim_rolling_on_the_
 

Risen

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Anyways, I agreed to the massaging and we went through with it.

At this point I already determined that you have not an ounce of sense or reasoning, and anything you say henceforth will be ridiculous.

I think you should quit the job and go work as a lobbyist handing out "favors" to politicians instead :yes:. You'd make a lot more money, and they'd likely give you gifts too ;) . In fact, I know a man in Orange County named Michael D. Duvall (Assembly
District representative) who could probably give you the hook up.
 

Thalassa

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Uh, unless you're a licensed massage therapist it seems fairly creepy. Professional men often hire escorts to come with them into hotel rooms and give them massages. If he wants a legit massage he can get a licensed therapist.

Are you desperate for money? I would be uncomfortable continuing to work for someone like that.

But that's all on you. No judgement here, believe me.
 

Thalassa

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I respect your expertise on the subject, but your experience has only been with situations like this where the guy is a sick pervert. I'm actually not suprised most people responded the way we did, the media constantly preys on our fears, especially the fear of our own complacency.

I don't find the boss' response suprising either... she agreed to the position then later changed her mind. My guess is he has probably dealt with this same reaction before and wants an assistant who is comfortable with it, finding someone else would certainly be easier. Still, I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to have an assistant who can also perform his daily massage if that is in fact all he wants.

I can't say she made the wrong decision, it was definately the safer choice. I just want to point out the heavy confirmation bias here.


But...he could pay a masseuse to give him his daily massage. Why wouldn't he want to simply hire a licensed massage therapist, maybe get a cheaper rate since he's a frequent customer? The answer seems fairly obvious to me.
 

Risen

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But...he could pay a masseuse to give him his daily massage. Why wouldn't he want to simply hire a licensed massage therapist, maybe get a cheaper rate since he's a frequent customer? The answer seems fairly obvious to me.

Thank you. This isn't difficult to understand. I understood it just by reading the title of the thread. :doh:

and :doh: for goodness sake.

I mean, i can't believe that you actually have a problem with what's really going on there in the first place. You likely just have a slight bit of guilt because a part of you says you shouldn't be doing that, but overall you don't mind massaging your nude boss even if he's doing it to take advantage of all his female employees. Some part of you likes it/doesn't care, and you're simply denying the extremely overtly obvious facts of the situation.

And no, your bf would NOT like that.
 
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