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  1. #31

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    The people on top are being fucked just like the people on the bottom are, just more spiritually than materially.

    It's easy to blame one's own unhappiness on lack of money (or poverty, which can contribute significantly to unhappiness). But what about those whose millions have not made them any happier? Modern society is alienating to everyone, not just the poor.
    Ti = Ne > Fi = Ni > Te = Si > Fe = Se

    "I've never seen a child who didn't want to build something out of blocks, or learn something new, or try the next task. And the only reason why adults aren't like that is, I suppose, that they have been sent to school and other oppressive institutions which have driven that out of them."
    -- Noam Chomsky

  2. #32
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grayscale View Post
    why do you need to be rich?
    1. external validation .. I want real results to validate my work ($ is a scorekeeper)

    (moral victories are great... in doses... Most people's lives are spent "at work", and thus if my work success is a mere "moral victory", then my whole life will almost be a "moral victory")

    2. I fear having my life's choices determined for me by a lack of money/prestige ---> I want security/freedom.

    3. I want to be a desirable mate... i dont want a gold digger, but i imagine being successful sure doesn't hurt your chances.

  3. #33
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Man, you need a therapist.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  4. #34
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    Start a business. Yea, there might be a whole bunch of obstacles to success in IB, but that's not the only way to make $. Anyone who says so just lacks imagination. Try to think about new jobs that are being created by new technology. Think about where the economy and job markets are going and position yourself for a windfall

  5. #35
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    This was really interesting.

    I'm feeling a great deal of gratitude towards my parents pushing me on pretty much that path with the summer internships and top school and stuff

  6. #36
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    1. external validation .. I want real results to validate my work ($ is a scorekeeper)

    (moral victories are great... in doses... Most people's lives are spent "at work", and thus if my work success is a mere "moral victory", then my whole life will almost be a "moral victory")

    2. I fear having my life's choices determined for me by a lack of money/prestige ---> I want security/freedom.

    3. I want to be a desirable mate... i dont want a gold digger, but i imagine being successful sure doesn't hurt your chances.
    I understand where you're coming from because I think a lot of people have this mindset towards their future career, but based on people I've met who are well advanced into their career a lack of job satisfaction is far more likely to be your downfall than not having enough money or prestige to live reasonably well. When someone places so much value on "winning", it can skew their perception as to what career is appropriate for them. It is too late when they find out that aside from financial freedom money cannot "do" much for your mood if you are flushing away at least 1/3 of your pre-retirement life doing something you dont find emotionally fulfilling.

    Of course, financial magazines feature people who are not only successful but enjoy their job. I would be surprised if the two are not correlated in the sense that you tend to do well at what you enjoy. I think a lot of people just try to emulate that lifestyle and turn a blind eye to their own desires.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grayscale View Post
    I understand where you're coming from because I think a lot of people have this mindset towards their future career, but based on people I've met who are well advanced into their career a lack of job satisfaction is far more likely to be your downfall than not having enough money or prestige to live reasonably well. When someone places so much value on "winning", it can skew their perception as to what career is appropriate for them. It is too late when they find out that aside from financial freedom money cannot "do" much for your mood if you are flushing away at least 1/3 of your pre-retirement life doing something you dont find emotionally fulfilling.

    Of course, financial magazines feature people who are not only successful but enjoy their job. I would be surprised if the two are not correlated in the sense that you tend to do well at what you enjoy. I think a lot of people just try to emulate that lifestyle and turn a blind eye to their own desires.
    Couldn't agree more.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Timmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    If you didn't read this book, you should:

    Class: A Guide Through the American Status System:Amazon:Books

    This was a great book, though I could sense a sort of snobbish undercurrent from the author.

    Interestingly, an observation made was that those from the "lower castes" (using the OP's parlance) who became rich were merely rich people from the lower caste.

    IOW, trailer trash became wealthy trailer trash...it didn't transform them into the Vanderbilts. They were still the same basic people they were, but with means. Think Beverly Hillbillies.

    From my own perspective, I can easily see this as being true. Were I to become rich, I'd basically remain the same person I am today, but have the money to do the same upper-middle-class stuff I already do, but more frequently.

    I wouldn't vacation in the Hamptons...snobby people, IMO. I wouldn't necessarily go bowling all the time, either....again, the people mostly, though I have many more friends from the bowling-league strata than the Hilton/Rothschild strata.

    I might get a larger house, but it wouldn't be in the trendy rich-people neighborhoods. I'd buy a bunch of property and build a large, functional house with functional shit in it. Nothing would be "don't sit on that..." quality.

    Finally, to the OP: I can tell you already that your "scorekeeping" system and need for external validation will never be satisfied. You will never earn enough, receive enough praise or be high enough in the "caste" system to satisfy you. Because there will always be someone else earning more than you, better than you or higher than you.

    So you'll try and achieve that, too.

    In the vernacular of us lower-caste people, it's known as "keeping up with the Joneses", except that in your perceived world of satisfaction, it's the Hearsts that you have to keep up with.

    Good luck with that.

  9. #39
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Man, you need a therapist.
    hahaha...

    I sure hope not... i mean...its not im an INFJ or some other crazy type


    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Start a business. Yea, there might be a whole bunch of obstacles to success in IB, but that's not the only way to make $. Anyone who says so just lacks imagination. Try to think about new jobs that are being created by new technology. Think about where the economy and job markets are going and position yourself for a windfall
    I've got a few ideas. Ive been building/testing some tra$ding models in my spare time...its turned into quite a project...

    Quote Originally Posted by justxher View Post
    This was really interesting.

    I'm feeling a great deal of gratitude towards my parents pushing me on pretty much that path with the summer internships and top school and stuff
    One of my best friends in highschool had parents like this, he's currently completely "set" (job in hand for postgrad). During highschool I remember feeling sorry for him a lot of the time (the pressure he got from his parents etc).

    I dont resent my parents. I think they are great parents. It may just be a personality issue. My friend's dad is an EXXJ type who would be perfect for rallying their kid down "the correct path". My dad on the other hand is an ISTP...he works hard and is successful, but managing people isnt his thing. He knew from day one what he wanted to do, and so he never had issues of "being too late" or needing anyone to remind him.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grayscale View Post
    I might get a larger house, but it wouldn't be in the trendy rich-people neighborhoods. I'd buy a bunch of property and build a large, functional house with functional shit in it. Nothing would be "don't sit on that..." quality.

    Finally, to the OP: I can tell you already that your "scorekeeping" system and need for external validation will never be satisfied. You will never earn enough, receive enough praise or be high enough in the "caste" system to satisfy you. Because there will always be someone else earning more than you, better than you or higher than you.

    So you'll try and achieve that, too.

    In the vernacular of us lower-caste people, it's known as "keeping up with the Joneses", except that in your perceived world of satisfaction, it's the Hearsts that you have to keep up with.

    Good luck with that.
    I totally get what you mean about the "still being yourself + money". Ive never been the type who wants to "dress up" for no other reason than to make those around you look lower class (im convinced that people do this..at least at my school they do...).

    There will always be someone ______er than you. Ive heard it before. I know its true. I guess my hope is that if I reach a certain mark I'll be satisfied enough to stop....
    ...though I'm often told its easier said than done.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    One of my best friends in highschool had parents like this, he's currently completely "set" (job in hand for postgrad). During highschool I remember feeling sorry for him a lot of the time (the pressure he got from his parents etc).

    I dont resent my parents. I think they are great parents. It may just be a personality issue. My friend's dad is an EXXJ type who would be perfect for rallying their kid down "the correct path". My dad on the other hand is an ISTP...he works hard and is successful, but managing people isnt his thing. He knew from day one what he wanted to do, and so he never had issues of "being too late" or needing anyone to remind him.
    My father is an IXTJ (futures trader) and my mother is an ENXJ (director of an MNC). I was in the same position as your friend after HS - I could basically do anything that I wanted to do. My parents tried to push me to study finance/business but I already knew that I wanted to do research.

    I spent a long time resenting my parents for pushing me to do things that I didn't want to do to acquire a future that I didn't want to have, essentially trading off a childhood and my early life for "options" in the future. At the same time, I do not value money as highly as they do, and because of that, tend to believe that they are overly materialistic. Life isn't a formula that you can plug values into and spit out the "correct" answer. There is no formula to personal happiness. My parents probably thought that they were doing the best thing for me by constantly nagging me and putting pressure on me to do everything. While I can appreciate that concern in retrospect, such heavy-handed parenting is not what I needed and permanently damaged our relationship.

    It's impossible to say what would have happened "if..." and you don't even know if iBanking is really what you want. You haven't done the 120-hr/week hours, you haven't had to sleep and eat at the office, run on caffeine for years and have no time to find the mate that you think money is going to attract you. I think doing a job to "win" is one of the most ridiculous ideas ever. You will never win. There will never be an end point. True happiness and satisfaction cannot be gained by trying to one-up someone else.

    Of course, this is perspective gained from getting everything that I thought that I wanted, after losing something that was truly important (and that I would've traded every accomplishment in my life for). If you never have this experience in life, you're probably really lucky.

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