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  1. #21
    Senior Member run's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    To send them to the counselor is to acknowledge that a single person isn't always capable of handling everything. It's not giving up on a student if the teacher truly wants to help them out. So if the resource is there, you might as well use it.

    The issue of pride can slip in here. "I can handle it" which is dangerous (well not really) in teaching.
    No its not. Not necessarily. If you can deal with a problematic kid, do it. If you can't, then learn. They might respect the guidance counselor, but when they return to class, the relationship with the teacher is still there and the problem hasn't been solved.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by run View Post
    No its not. Not necessarily. If you can deal with a problematic kid, do it. If you can't, then learn. They might respect the guidance counselor, but when they return to class, the relationship with the teacher is still there and the problem hasn't been solved.
    That would mean forcing your views on the student. There's alot of pride in the idea that the a children must follow strict orders no matter what situation. If you have the ability to deal with problematic kids then fine, but if you don't then it's pointless to keep pushing. Stubborness and pride should not come into play.

    The other posters here have already mentioned how taking a one-fit approach would be ineffective and wrong. Some children will be OK, while others will shut you off completely. There's nothing about balancing when it comes to forcing views on others and it's certainly not the right method. I'm sure there are many N's here that can support that statement with their beliefs on SJ based education.

    PS. I'm not claiming that you do this.

    To send the child to counselling means that it's last resorts. That the child will just be on good terms with one but bad with the others, that's the problem that the counsellor has to address otherwise they haven't done their job properly. The teachers are meant to work with the educational psychologists/counsellors etc.

  3. #23
    Senior Member run's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    That would mean forcing your views on the student. There's alot of pride in the idea that the a children must follow strict orders no matter what situation. If you have the ability to deal with problematic kids then fine, but if you don't then it's pointless to keep pushing. Stubborness and pride should not come into play.

    The other posters here have already mentioned how taking a one-fit approach would be ineffective and wrong. Some children will be OK, while others will shut you off completely. There's nothing about balancing when it comes to forcing views on others and it's certainly not the right method. I'm sure there are many N's here that can support that statement with their beliefs on SJ based education.

    PS. I'm not claiming that you do this.

    To send the child to counselling means that it's last resorts. That the child will just be on good terms with one but bad with the others, that's the problem that the counsellor has to address otherwise they haven't done their job properly. The teachers are meant to work with the educational psychologists/counsellors etc.
    I don't understand what you mean by "forcing my views on them". What views?

    But i don't think its stubbornness. i think its a refusal to give up on a child. as soon as you give up on him, he'll give up on himself. If he's a problem child, chances are his parents don't believe in him. could you see a parent believing in a problem child? A guidance counselor is no more trained to deal with people than you are. You're a person too.

    But your'e saying no one is perfect and can handle everything. Which is true.

  4. #24
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    As usual, I'm a fan of the C way. IMO and IME different kids respond to different approaches. Some kids are approval-seekers and being punative with them can cause them to shut down or hate you and decide you're not worth respecting. Others are line-pushers and need a firmer approach. And there are many shades in between.
    I aree with Ivy here.
    They all need an individual handling althought it might be difficult in group situations.

  5. #25
    Nickle Iron Silicone Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    Child-directed learning with an emphasis on increasing emotional intelligence appeals to me most. I think that if you provide a safe environment for children to explore, they will seek out what speaks to them. The purpose of the more knowledgeable adult/facilitator in any particular subject area is to assist the learner in expanding on the knowledge they already seek.

    A teacher/adult guide who ignores the emotional life of the child is doing no one any favors. As Aphrodite said, many children spend most of their days with their teachers. Statistically, every class will have a number of children who are being abused or otherwise exploited. In any class, there will be children who are battling life long illnesses, and children whose parents are mentally ill and largely unavailable. Who are those children? The teacher may never know. It is best, imo, to have adult facilitators/teachers who understand the intense emotional experience of children, and the plight of the child, in general.

    It is not the job of the teacher/facilitator, to prepare the child for the real world. Children already live in the real world. I'd never put my child in the hands of an adult who didn't get that. To ignore or discount a child's feelings(emotional life) is to rob them of their humanity, and reduce them to an inanimate blank slate to be written on.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by run View Post
    I don't understand what you mean by "forcing my views on them". What views?
    A particular method of teaching. What did you mean by "If you can't, then learn"...
    ...Which at this point I facepalm mysef for misreading then for they. x_x

    But i don't think its stubbornness. i think its a refusal to give up on a child. as soon as you give up on him, he'll give up on himself. If he's a problem child, chances are his parents don't believe in him. could you see a parent believing in a problem child? A guidance counselor is no more trained to deal with people than you are. You're a person too.

    But your'e saying no one is perfect and can handle everything. Which is true.
    Mmm difference of opinion. I find it a little odd how asking a guidance counselor to help out is considered as giving up on a child. If guidance counseors aren't more trained than the average teacher, then what exactly is their purpose?

  7. #27
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Teaching at its core requires a kind of mental empathy. You have to get your mind around the developing perceptions and skills of the student and then know how to break down the information into bits they can grasp and build on. Anyone in the process of learning can be made to feel worthless by presenting information on an inappropriate level. Teaching is a holistic endeavor because assumptions and attitudes strongly influence a person's ability to learn. Treating students with respect will help them learn faster. Disregarding this might be more convenient for some, but you will not get effective results. If you want the best results as a teacher, then part of the process is instilling a sense of confidence in the student by presenting them with just the right challenge that matches their skills and perceptions. If feelings are present and influencing the learning environment, then they do have to be addressed if you want effective results. It's no different than establishing school breakfast programs because students struggled to learn without blood sugar to the brain. Anxieties, frustration, and low self-esteem interrupt learning in the same way.

    I don't see that there is a preconceived option if the goal is being effective. In that case, you take what is presented and make the most of it.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

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