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Hard to find a job

Athenian200

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The really sad thing is that we're probably all "the cream of the crop" from wherever we all are, and the situation is still this horrible.

Yeah. You guys probably are. I'm actually not... I've got a high school diploma and nothing else. No experience, no volunteering, no extracurricular activities, no references, no car, no college, etc. Most people on this forum probably have a lot more education than I do. How hopeless do you think that makes ME feel?

I'm never going to have anything I want. I'm going to be expected to consistently struggle just to be able to afford to eat dirt, if I ever get out on my own. I can't live like that... and I won't live like that.
 

SillySapienne

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I've never had difficulty finding a job, holding one down, however, is a whole other story. ;)

I have found two jobs within the past six months, the second one directly stemming from the connections I made through my first.

My m.o. has always been to meet the one who is going to hire me directly, and win them over during the interview process.

I have many skills, but nothing I can really put on paper.

Every job I have ever applied to on paper I've failed to get, whereas every job I have directly interviewed for I've gotten on the spot.

In cases like this I feel quite lucky to be a so-called "people person".
 

Athenian200

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I've never had difficulty finding a job, holding one down, however, is a whole other story. ;)

I have found two jobs within the past six months, the second one directly stemming from the connections I made through my first.

My m.o. has always been to meet the one who is going to hire me directly, and win them over during the interview process.

I have many skills, but nothing I can really put on paper.

Every job I have ever applied to on paper I've failed to get, whereas every job I have directly interviewed for I've gotten on the spot.

In cases like this I feel quite lucky to be a so-called "people person".

Yeah. I'm beginning to think people like you are the REALLY intelligent ones. All those kids that appeared to be screwing around with their friends and accomplishing nothing in school, slacking off on their grades? They're the ones who've got jobs now. I know because I spoke to a few of them last year. I turned my nose up at all of that, thinking that my sacrifice of pleasure in the moment would make my future better than theirs. Now they're the ones laughing in my face.

What most consider "shallow" is actually productive behavior, given human nature. And what we consider intelligent is nothing but self-indulgence of the mind in intellectually based ideals that aren't rooted in reality. Everything is made of irony.

I'm intelligent enough to understand HOW to do things, and what they are, but because I'm unable to form, maintain, and rely on connections to people easily, I'm as helpless as a child in a society that's structured around starting off with that ability. :(

Intelligence is superficial, and superficiality is intelligence. That's reality.
 

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That's actually pretty deep.

And more than mildly depressing to those of us who wank it to our own (seeming)intelligence.
 

SillySapienne

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Yeah. I'm beginning to think people like you are the REALLY intelligent ones. All those kids that appeared to be screwing around with their friends and accomplishing nothing in school, slacking off on their grades? They're the ones who've got jobs now. I know because I spoke to a few of them last year. I turned my nose up at all of that, thinking that my sacrifice of pleasure in the moment would make my future better than theirs. Now they're the ones laughing in my face.

What most consider "shallow" is actually productive behavior, given human nature. And what we consider intelligent is nothing but self-indulgence of the mind in intellectually based ideals that aren't rooted in reality. Everything is made of irony.

I'm intelligent enough to understand HOW to do things, and what they are, but because I'm unable to form, maintain, and rely on connections to people easily, I'm as helpless as a child in a society that's structured around starting off with that ability. :(

Intelligence is superficial, and superficiality is intelligence. That's reality.
How is having people skills superficial?

I'll have you know that I am neither shallow nor superficial.

I apologize for actually liking people (sometimes), and I only accept jobs from people I sincerely like. The trend thus far has been, the more I like my job, and the people I work with, the more likely I'll stick to it.

I'm competent, intelligent, reliable, trustworthy, and likable, and my employers seem to notice this about me and hence appreciate me as an employee.

Pursue jobs that suit your personality, I like interacting with people, and this directly relates to the fact that I happen to be working as both a caregiver and nanny, at the moment.

Again, I am confused by your presumptuous and erroneous claims in your post.

I LOVE learning, and have always LOVED learning, I tend to be a slacker when it comes to shit I don't want to do but how does that make me less intelligent and more shallow?!?!?

You are a human being, and human beings are social creatures.

Having people skills is an asset and I guess also an epigenetic blessing.

You seem bitter. :/
 

Athenian200

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How is having people skills superficial?

I'll have you know that I am neither shallow nor superficial.

I apologize for actually liking people (sometimes), and I only accept jobs from people I sincerely like. The trend thus far has been, the more I like my job, and the people I work with, the more likely I'll stick to it.

I'm competent, intelligent, reliable, trustworthy, and likable, and my employers seem to notice this about me and hence appreciate me as an employee.

Pursue jobs that suit your personality, I like interacting with people, and this directly relates to the fact that I happen to be working as both a caregiver and nanny, at the moment.

Again, I am confused by your presumptuous and erroneous claims in your post.

I LOVE learning, and have always LOVED learning, I tend to be a slacker when it comes to shit I don't want to do but how does that make me less intelligent and more shallow?!?!?

You are a human being, and human beings are social creatures.

Having people skills is an asset and I guess also an epigenetic blessing.

You seem bitter. :/

Oh, sorry. I didn't mean to imply that YOU'RE shallow, just that you know how to embrace shallowness from time to time. I know you're intelligent, but I was pointing out that most people with good social skills aren't "intelligent" in the normal sense of the word at all, and they still get by just fine. Basically, that "intelligence" is a handicap rather than an asset in most situations.

I am a bit bitter... mostly because I don't have a job, or any friends for that matter.

As for why people skills are superficial... well, because generally speaking, it involves appealing to what people like rather than what's technically true or makes sense. This is considered "superficial" from an intellectual perspective, mostly because it largely makes the intellectual perspective itself seem invalid.
 

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I'm pretty sure that Athenian meant that the people s/he knows who are able to obtain a job on the spot based on one interview are so-and-so kinds of people--not necessarily implying that you are exactly like them.

Also, who wouldn't be bitter if they couldn't find a job?

EDIT: Ninja'ed by Athenian.
 

SillySapienne

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This is how I would describe and define my people skills:

Ever since I was young I have taken an interest in people, in the way they work, in why they do the things they do.

I have always been attracted to observing and understanding why people act in certain ways, and what triggers people to feel how they feel.

A lot of this has also stemmed from my own ongoing attempts at understanding myself, who I am, and why I am the way I am.

Believe it or not, but there is a whole lot of thinking, theorizing and problem solving that goes into understanding human nature.

And, empathy and compassion as well.

Having people skills, or caring about people and human nature is not a trivial or superficial pursuit.

I have found that people like people who are sincere, and that people like people who listen to them and withhold judgment. People also like people who they feel as though they can easily connect to and confide in.

I am very open and nonjudmental (in the classical sense) when dealing with people, and I believe this pays off.

But if you feel alienated from others, so different from them that you feel as though you don't even speak the same language or live on the same metaphorical plane, I can understand how it would be difficult to engage them, or be engaging to them.

I dunno, my father had horrible people skills, and generally detested most people.

This is why he went into the field of radiology where he could, for the most part, be left alone in his office in a hospital basement assessing and diagnosing fractures and diseases from inanimate x-rays into an inanimate dictaphone.

So, there is hope, not all jobs require people skills.

:)
 

Athenian200

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This is how I would describe and define my people skills:

Ever since I was young I have taken an interest in people, in the way they work, in why they do the things they do.

I have always been attracted to observing and understanding why people act in certain ways, and what triggers people to feel how they feel.

A lot of this has also stemmed from my own ongoing attempts at understanding myself, who I am, and why I am the way I am.

Believe it or not, but there is a whole lot of thinking, theorizing and problem solving that goes into understanding human nature.

And, empathy and compassion as well.

Having people skills, or caring about people and human nature is not a trivial or superficial pursuit.

I have found that people like people who are sincere, and that people like people who listen to them and withhold judgment. People also like people who they feel as though they can easily connect to and confide in.

I am very open and nonjudmental (in the classical sense) when dealing with people, and I believe this pays off.

But if you feel alienated from others, so different from them that you feel as though you don't even speak the same language or live on the same metaphorical plane, I can understand how it would be difficult to engage them, or be engaging to them.

I dunno, my father had horrible people skills, and generally detested most people.

This is why he went into the field of radiology where he could, for the most part, be left alone in his office in a hospital basement assessing and diagnosing fractures and diseases from inanimate x-rays into an inanimate dictatphone.

So, there is hope, not all jobs require people skills.

:)

Well, yeah. I'm interested in people, too. It's just that I try to do it by reading books about them, or observing from a distance. I like people, but I'm scared of them and don't know how to get them to like me. So I just avoid them, and keep trying to understand them from a distance.

Perhaps that's why this is so frustrating for me. I'm not a person with no interest in people, just one who's afraid of what sort of person I'd be if I tried too hard to appeal to them, or of messing up and being disliked.

Besides, I don't have any existing situations set up where I'm around people on a regular basis like school or work. That makes it ten times harder for me.
 

Risen

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People Shmeeple.

With that said, I do have good social skills and know how to work people over when need be. Every interview I've ever managed to get I've always rocked it and been hired on the spot. I tell them exactly what they want to hear, and butter them up a bit. The real challenge is pretending to be enthusiastic about working in retail, because I loathe it so from deep in my soul. Being able to act like flowers sprout from my ass just by being in the story is an art form that would make Denzel Washington look like PeeWee Herman.

*end bragging*
 

Saslou

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Most people on this forum probably have a lot more education than I do. How hopeless do you think that makes ME feel?

I'm never going to have anything I want. I'm going to be expected to consistently struggle just to be able to afford to eat dirt, if I ever get out on my own. I can't live like that... and I won't live like that.

I know how you 'feel' as i left school without any qualifications, especially on this site being surrounded by people with PHD's etc. Don't let it get to you.
I just try and put a different spin on things when i am in self criticizing mood.
I am not educated to a high standard but i have some excellent life skills, which money can not buy.

I have been back to school so many times and done my little courses to help me out along the way.

Life has a way of falling in place. Stay optimistic and i am sure things will look up for you. ;)
 

jenocyde

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Yeah. You guys probably are. I'm actually not... I've got a high school diploma and nothing else. No experience, no volunteering, no extracurricular activities, no references, no car, no college, etc. Most people on this forum probably have a lot more education than I do. How hopeless do you think that makes ME feel?

I'm never going to have anything I want. I'm going to be expected to consistently struggle just to be able to afford to eat dirt, if I ever get out on my own. I can't live like that... and I won't live like that.

Don't be so hard on yourself. We all had to start somewhere. When I was really young and desperate, I interned for free at a company for a summer. I busted my ass and ate half my peanut butter and jelly sandwich in the morning for breakfast and half for lunch. Couldn't afford to even take public transportation and would literally walk miles to get there. Fortunately, I was hired within a few weeks and was quickly promoted through the ranks.

Sometimes you just gotta earn your stripes and be completely without ego. Is there any company that you would like to learn more about? And career of interest? I say, try to do it for free at first. You will learn immensely because everyone will have you doing everything. And if you are pleasant and hard working, you will get hired. I've seen every industry do this from pharmaceutical companies all the way down to recording studios. There is always work and free training if you are willing and able to sacrifice a few months of pay for a lifetime of experience. And a paid job usually comes out of that. It gives people a chance to audition you somehow. And if you don't get the paying job, at least you have experience on your resume.
 

Kingfisher

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Most people on this forum probably have a lot more education than I do. How hopeless do you think that makes ME feel?

hey athenian, i dropped out of highschool and didn't get my GED until i was in my mid 20's. i went to college for a short while, but left that also. i run into a lot of people more educated than me.

We all had to start somewhere. When I was really young and desperate, I interned for free at a company for a summer. I busted my ass and ate half my peanut butter and jelly sandwich in the morning for breakfast and half for lunch. Couldn't afford to even take public transportation and would literally walk miles to get there.

Sometimes you just gotta earn your stripes and be completely without ego.

yeah, i agree. i think being desperate when i was young, and working myself down to my bones, really paid off for me. it gave me a lot of perspective, taught me to be content. and you are right jenocyde, it really broke down my ego.
i have a feeling that if i hadn't worked so hard when i was young i would be more anxious and apprehensive now, instead of letting go of worry.

also, jenocyde, your comment of 'i ate half my sandwich for breakfast and half my sandwich for lunch' really strikes me in an artistic way, it perfectly captures that young and desperate life for me.
 

Edgar

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I'm going to translate what CaptainChick said into NT-nese, beacuase she is right and some NTs might dismiss what she said due to NF-ish presentation...

Trust is the most important commodity when it comes to new hires. Bosses will often keep quasi competent, quasi retarded employee than take a risk with someone new ("sure bobby is kind of retarded and a bit of a fuck up, but at least I know what to expect").

You can't build trust with a resume. So the chances of getting a job using social skills are astronomically higher than through other qualifications (absent few rare exceptions)

Most people balk at changes and prefer to avoid risks.
 

jenocyde

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yeah, i agree. i think being desperate when i was young, and working myself down to my bones, really paid off for me. it gave me a lot of perspective, taught me to be content. and you are right jenocyde, it really broke down my ego.
i have a feeling that if i hadn't worked so hard when i was young i would be more anxious and apprehensive now, instead of letting go of worry.

also, jenocyde, your comment of 'i ate half my sandwich for breakfast and half my sandwich for lunch' really strikes me in an artistic way, it perfectly captures that young and desperate life for me.

That's the thing. People look down on certain types of work, but there is nothing shameful about a hard day's work. Lord knows I never would have gotten as much as I have now, if I hadn't rolled up my sleeves and just did what I had to do. I can't tell you the menial jobs I've had. I was a teenage runaway, there were no other (legal) options. I kid you not, I even used to mop floors in the dirty movie theater.

I'm going to translate what CaptainChick said into NT-nese, beacuase she is right and some NTs might dismiss what she said due to NF-ish presentation...

Trust is the most important commodity when it comes to new hires. Bosses will often keep quasi competent, quasi retarded employee than take a risk with someone new ("sure bobby is kind of retarded and a bit of a fuck up, but at least I know what to expect").

You can't build trust with a resume. So the chances of getting a job using social skills are astronomically higher than through other qualifications (absent few rare exceptions)

Most people balk at changes and prefer to avoid risks.

Edgar and CC are completely correct. There is something to be said for learning how to communicate with people. We spend more time with our coworkers than we do with our families, on average. I don't care if you are talkative or not, but you have to learn to speak well, speak confidently and make all different types of people comfortable in your presence. It truly is an important, intelligent skill.
 

Edgar

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I can't tell you the menial jobs I've had. I was a teenage runaway, there were no other (legal) options. I kid you not, I even used to mop floors in the dirty movie theater.

Did you get to meet Paul Ruebens?

If so, I'm jealous.
 

jenocyde

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Did you get to meet Paul Ruebens?

If so, I'm jealous.

Awww, poor Pee Wee... What else was he supposed to be doing in there?

Bet all you INTs are happy for the internet, just for that one reason...
 

Kingfisher

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That's the thing. People look down on certain types of work, but there is nothing shameful about a hard day's work. Lord knows I never would have gotten as much as I have now, if I hadn't rolled up my sleeves and just did what I had to do. I can't tell you the menial jobs I've had. I was a teenage runaway, there were no other (legal) options. I kid you not, I even used to mop floors in the dirty movie theater.

yeah, i had a few menial jobs too, and a lot of very hard jobs. i took a lot of dangerous and undesireable jobs because there were always openings in them, and sometimes a little better pay. i wear my injuries like badges of honor. i am proud of that lifestyle and my working history.
 

Risen

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Watching many seasons of survivor has shown me how important rapport can be on a team or in the workplace. Social skills get you very far ahead in that game (the work environment). It doesn't matter what the other laws of the universe or higher logic are, the rules of the game are those set by society and the company/coworkers, so that is the standard you must adhere to or you will fail in that environment. I, being an INTP, hate to compromise my values and beliefs for things I consider to be illogical and superficial, but I can do so when it's required for me to achieve a higher goal. It's all nothing more than a game I must succeed at to reach the next level and get closer to what it is that I truly want and a position in life where I get to make the rules and don't have to suffer on the playing board that has been set for the majority of people. Sometimes I wonder if I'm a J... not.
 

TSDesigner

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Brian Tracy said that the #1 quality that employers look for is the ability to get along with others. He should know what he's talking about since he's run many successful businesses and been a consultant for many big corporations. So I guess if you're a people person, you'll have an easier time getting hired. If you're not a people person, you could always become self employed.
 
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