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worst type for the military

Thalassa

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- teachers don't (can't) walk up to your face and scream at you/namecall, etc

- 6-7 hours a day, 5 days a week, with different teachers is much more tolerable than 24/7

- Relatively MUCH more freedom/individuality in school than in the military

- in primary/secondary school, you don't want the school calling your parents if you act up. In the military, all the consequences are upfront/within legal bounds.

For real, though.

It's why there's a difference between military school and regular schooling, too.

People who are aware of their own strengths and weaknesses aren't "immature" in my opinion, either. I think it would be much more immature to join the military because other people wanted you to or you wanted college money, only to end up going AWOL or something. A friend of mine got a dishonorable discharge from the military at a young age for something similar.

I know myself and I know what I'm good at and where I don't belong.
 

Metamorphosis

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- teachers don't (can't) walk up to your face and scream at you/namecall, etc

- 6-7 hours a day, 5 days a week, with different teachers is much more tolerable than 24/7

- Relatively MUCH more freedom/individuality in school than in the military

- in primary/secondary school, you don't want the school calling your parents if you act up. In the military, all the consequences are upfront/within legal bounds.

There's a method to the madness. Schools aren't teaching you to deal with high stress situations. They are teaching you something different, which requires a different method of teaching. You might have more freedom in a school, but they aren't paying you either.

I can completely understand why a lot of people don't join the military. It isn't for everyone. I was only commenting on how frequently I hear people make that statement about drill sergeants. Only once have I ever seen a Drill Sergeant actually get right in someone's face and yell, and the situation was so absurd that even a civilian probably would have done the same thing.
 

Robopop

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I have been in the military(Navy), I did not like it, it is almost anti-individuality, group think mentality. I think IPs would have alot of problems in the military, it so much clashes with their easygoing, passive natures, the military is soooo heavily TeSi-oriented, with dashes of Fe and Se. The military is highly selective to begin with(depending on branch), so it does take a special kind of person to be successful and actually enjoy their military experience. Another unpleasent aspect of the military is since they see everyone as a "group" that means everyone is held accountable for the actions of every other individual in the group, one person messes up, everyone messes up.
 

Qlip

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I could somehow manage being in the military. I am a knee-jerk anti authoritarian, but I can proactively compensate. THEY sense it though, and they don't really like me all that much. It wouldn't be a successful career.
 

jimrckhnd

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I could somehow manage being in the military. I am a knee-jerk anti authoritarian, but I can proactively compensate. THEY sense it though, and they don't really like me all that much. It wouldn't be a successful career.

That's a reasonably normal pattern. I had alot of problems stiffling my "non verbal insolence" - there is just something that radiates off me when I don't respect someone. Not suprisingly many of my superiors picked up on this and this made life tough at times.

That said I had an awful lot of respect for my "drills" - they were exceptional men and if you ever considered the long hours and the frustrations they experianced (there are few things more annoying than seeing somebody dressed in a uniform they have no yet learned to wear).
 

Robopop

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That's a reasonably normal pattern. I had alot of problems stiffling my "non verbal insolence" - there is just something that radiates off me when I don't respect someone. Not suprisingly many of my superiors picked up on this and this made life tough at times.

That said I had an awful lot of respect for my "drills" - they were exceptional men and if you ever considered the long hours and the frustrations they experianced (there are few things more annoying than seeing somebody dressed in a uniform they have no yet learned to wear).

Yeah the drills are basically in there with the recruits in boot camp, when I was in boot camp they would leave around 10 PM, take a 2-3 hour drive home and be back around 5 AM. They only get about 3 hours of sleep a night, no wonder why they're so pissed off. :D
 

Mole

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I am a person not a type.

In order to teach us to kill the military need to dehumanise us. They need to turn us from persons into types. And MBTI is perfect for the purposes of the military.

And when they try to recruit you, just say, "I am a person not a type, make love not war".
 

Metamorphosis

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In order to teach us to kill the military need to dehumanise us. They need to turn us from persons into types. And MBTI is perfect for the purposes of the military.

And when they try to recruit you, just say, "I am a person not a type, make love not war".

You don't need to dehumanize someone to make them kill. It's a perfectly human act.
 

KDude

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True, drill sergeants apparently don't yell. At least not like they used to, according to my dad.

That said, he's a military guy, and even he prevented me from thinking about joining (not that I ever really did). He always said I'd get kicked out, not me. And not just because of yelling. I just don't do well with that kind of authority. Also, I'm a highschool dropout, so I didn't do well with teachers either. Is it a badge of pride? Hmm, I guess it is. For the sake of humor at least, I'll just say that everyone can fuck off.

No, j/k. I just like authorities to earn my respect as much as I theirs. Usually, institutions have the leg up on that for some people, where the institution itself commands respect, and the authorities along with it. So it's easier for some to just graft themselves into it right off the bat. For others, it takes time. I'm probably one of these people where it takes time.
 

Mole

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Military Incompetence and the Authoritarian Personality

In the book, "On the Psychology of Military Incompetence", by Dr. Norman F. Dixon, we learn that the authoritarian personality is cultivated by the military.

And naturally the authoritarian personlity rises in the ranks to General. And it is the authoritarian General that is the cause of military incompetence.

And it is MBTI that helps the military to identify the authoritarian personality.
 

INTPness

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In the book, "On the Psychology of Military Incompetence", by Dr. Norman F. Dixon, we learn that the authoritarian personality is cultivated by the military.

And naturally the authoritarian personlity rises in the ranks to General. And it is the authoritarian General that is the cause of military incompetence.

And it is MBTI that helps the military to identify the authoritarian personality.

So, help me understand this. Every promotion cycle, when the higher ups assign evaluations based on quotas (the top 20% of evals have a MUCH better chance of getting promoted), you're saying those 20% of top evals are granted based on who they have identified as being a certain MBTI type?

It's very political here in the U.S. military. At least in my branch of service (I was enlisted, not an officer), in the lower ranks (E-1 through E-5) promotion was largely based on your test score. As long as you didn't totally piss off your superiors, you could basically "promote yourself" by putting in a good test score. But, once you get into the E-6 (shop supervisor) to E-9 (lifetime career man with an attitude), your evaluation became VERY important as they are more heavily weighted at these ranks. If you aren't in that top 20% of evaluations, it's going to be difficult to get promoted. So, only being in for 4 years, I went E-1 to E-5 in no time flat. Then, I began seeing very bright E-5's who were quiet or who otherwise didn't "join in the reindeer games", unable to get promoted because the higher ups would give out the top 20% evals to "their buddies" or people who "played the game better".

People who usually didn't get promoted from E-6 and up: quiet people, people who didn't schmooze, people who weren't particularly bright.
People who did promote well from E-6 and up: talkative, workaholics, schmoozers, buddies, and talent played a role too.
 

Mole

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So, help me understand this. Every promotion cycle, when the higher ups assign evaluations based on quotas (the top 20% of evals have a MUCH better chance of getting promoted), you're saying those 20% of top evals are granted based on who they have identified as being a certain MBTI type?

It's very political here in the U.S. military. At least in my branch of service (I was enlisted, not an officer), in the lower ranks (E-1 through E-5) promotion was largely based on your test score. As long as you didn't totally piss off your superiors, you could basically "promote yourself" by putting in a good test score. But, once you get into the E-6 (shop supervisor) to E-9 (lifetime career man with an attitude), your evaluation became VERY important as they are more heavily weighted at these ranks. If you aren't in that top 20% of evaluations, it's going to be difficult to get promoted. So, only being in for 4 years, I went E-1 to E-5 in no time flat. Then, I began seeing very bright E-5's who were quiet or who otherwise didn't "join in the reindeer games", unable to get promoted because the higher ups would give out the top 20% evals to "their buddies" or people who "played the game better".

People who usually didn't get promoted from E-6 and up: quiet people, people who didn't schmooze, people who weren't particularly bright.
People who did promote well from E-6 and up: talkative, workaholics, schmoozers, buddies, and talent played a role too.

I think the problem posed by the book was, why do some Generals loose battles. And the answer given was that authoritarian Generals loose battles because their thinking and behaviour can be predicted by more creative Generals.

And what you say seems to bear out that the higher ranks are for people who "play the game better". And the game is an authoritarian game. So at the end of the game we tend to get far too many authoritarian Generals.
 

INTPness

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I think the problem posed by the book was, why do some Generals loose battles. And the answer given was that authoritarian Generals loose battles because their thinking and behaviour can be predicted by more creative Generals.

And what you say seems to bear out that the higher ranks are for people who "play the game better". And the game is an authoritarian game. So at the end of the game we tend to get far too many authoritarian Generals.

I can agree with the idea that at the very top of the officer ranks (those making big decisions), it tends to be authoritarian-heavy, if not completely dominated by them. I would also say that you're probably not going to find too many NTP's with the patience and focus to spend 30-35 years in one vocation so that they can rise through these ranks and become these types of military leaders.
 

chickpea

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i don't know, but i think i'd probably choose any other job over joining the military. NP's and FP's i guess would do the worst.
 
G

Glycerine

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The people who who can't stand hierarchical systems, having to sacrifice their autonomy to move up in rank, feeling "intruded upon" So , e4,5,9. probably. I think e3 (e8 and e6 if they agreed with the system) would be ideal for the military. You have to sacrifice a lot and strongly commit in order to excel. My dad was in the military for 35 years but was forced to entire (unless he became promoted to general which he did not want because you become more of a puppet than a Colonel, ironically).
 

Elfboy

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worst infantry: NFPs, INTJ
worst commander: FJs, IFPs
 
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