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The SJ Dominance of Education

Take Five

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Well, we're talking here about an institution that is set up to help people. Specifically in a field where one often needs help to know how to begin to ask for help.

It's not necessarily reasonable to tell a twelve-year-old, hey, you don't like what we're insisting you have to do or else be a failure to society? Well, it's on your own head then.

Everyone needs some kind of guidance at some stage.

EDIT:

That is to say, the whole point of learning is to empower people to think for themselves. So it's kind of ridiculous, when an educational system has failed in that mission to then go to the systemically powerless and say, dude, pick yourself up. What's wrong with you?

That's the whole problem to begin with.

I'm not sure that the educational system has failed in that mission. There are lots of people with whom education has succeeded. There's no magic button the system can push to make everyone learned and rational beings. The way things work is that the student has to put in effort, not just get spoonfed. How and why would a 12 year old know better anyway? Children think of any excuse not to like school.
 

Little Linguist

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Hey, I didn't say I didn't like school. Quite the contrary. But I'm glad we had a greater amount of freedom WITHIN an organized structure. People who are strict just because they have poles up their butts are not cool, however. You need to pick your battles: Discipline is good, but stifling creativity is not.

My school was awesome because it allowed for creativity within certain boundaries. That's how it should be.
 

CrystalViolet

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I was always bringing home notes about not attending classes. If it didn't interest me I wouldn't attend (or if I felt it had no real life application). Thus I didn't waste my time in P.E. or stupid life skills ect. I did make a special effort for maths, hated it, but knew I'd need it. Spent most of my time in the art room or in the science building. Teachers gave up trying to get me to attend stuff I thought was useless after I hit fifteen though, seeing I was a good student in everything I was interested in. Should have seen the fuss they kicked up though when I decided to give sex ed a miss.
As SJ as the system is, I found you can bend the rules within reason. Teachers aren't going to kick up a fuss if you are in the library "studying" (for me that meant researching my latest pet subject in science or history), instead going to home ec...it's probably a blessing for me, the internet wasn't freely available then though. I think I might have had issues then.
 

Take Five

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I was always bringing home notes about not attending classes. If it didn't interest me I wouldn't attend (or if I felt it had no real life application). Thus I didn't waste my time in P.E. or stupid life skills ect. I did make a special effort for maths, hated it, but knew I'd need it. Spent most of my time in the art room or in the science building. Teachers gave up trying to get me to attend stuff I thought was useless after I hit fifteen though, seeing I was a good student in everything I was interested in. Should have seen the fuss they kicked up though when I decided to give sex ed a miss.
As SJ as the system is, I found you can bend the rules within reason. Teachers aren't going to kick up a fuss if you are in the library "studying" (for me that meant researching my latest pet subject in science or history), instead going to home ec...it's probably a blessing for me, the internet wasn't freely available then though. I think I might have had issues then.

What do you do now? I mean what are you?
 

pure_mercury

Order Now!
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I'd be happy to see the data. However, to approximate an answer, Ns have just over +1SD above normal IQ and make up 25% (to 33%) of the population. You can work out roughly the population makeup from this.

So yes, lots of overlap. But you also have lots of truck drivers that like poetry. It just depends on what you want to use the information for.

(Also, kids tend to be closer to 50/50 population re: N, so it's actually less equal early on)

Interesting. I think that I've gotten more S as I've grown up.


*sigh* Marginally so, yes. In the sense that those that grasp earlier 'understand' more. The point is that they do grasp quicker, and then do not get fed anything else. Lockstep, but not in tune with ability.

Sure, but I think that the gifted also probably do more knowledge-seeking on their own, and it's likely more eclectic and advanced knowledge than what you get in school.
 

ptgatsby

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Interesting. I think that I've gotten more S as I've grown up.

We all do :) Well, on average, we all do :rolleyes:

Sure, but I think that the gifted also probably do more knowledge-seeking on their own, and it's likely more eclectic and advanced knowledge than what you get in school.

Yes, that's very likely. Unfortunately, and you can see it in this thread, knowledge seems to breed contempt, not understanding. The maturity level is just not there yet to really have the full package of knowledge, understanding and wisdom (pick 2 out of 3, I suppose).
 

avolkiteshvara

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Guys, the issue isn't that "SJs are supposed to like school more", the issue is that schoolteachers and schoolmasters/principles are predominantly SJ and thus SJs will have communication advantages, especially over SPs and NTPs. I really wish i would have had at least ONE fucking ENTP teacher in elementary school. SJ assbag after SJ assbag year after year really stifled the fuck out of my imagination, and I need my imagination to be illicited to see something (I dont hate SJs btw, i just presume the really smart/good SJs got better paying jobs)

+1

I had a couple classes that I got A in highschool. But because I didn't like showing up for class, the teachers dropped it down to a B or C. When I asked why I should get a lower grade even though all my work was spotless, they said "because its the rules".

SJ skewedness.
 

Verfremdungseffekt

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There are lots of people with whom education has succeeded.
Take a look at American educational rankings, and tell me that again.

The system isn't set up to teach anyone. It's not set up to help anyone understand life and go on to be a better person. It's set up to provide those with the initiative that you describe a tool to make a bunch of money.

Which is fucked up.
 
S

Sniffles

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It's best not confuse education with mere schooling. We have a bad habit of doing that these days.
 

ptgatsby

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Take a look at American educational rankings, and tell me that again.

Doesn't the us have a lot less emphasis and hours of schooling (esp. including after-hours study) than the other places on the rankings? Asia, in particular. If anything, that tells me that schools aren't "SJ" (or whatever) enough.

Of course, Canada is ranked notably higher than the US in most categories too... so maybe the factors are a bit more complicated.
 

Verfremdungseffekt

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It's best not confuse education with mere schooling. We have a bad habit of doing that these days.
Perhaps. Still, it's a tool that is set up to help people who need help.

Those who don't have problems -- say, the self-directed people described above who already know what to do with themselves from a young age -- they're not the priority. They can handle themselves. The system is inherently useless to them, except as a qualification.

Which means that as set up now, where -- especially in the US -- that's the only function it does serve, the system is basically useless to anyone, except in that capacity. Again, it doesn't take more than a glance at where the US stands worldwide in this regard to notice there's a problem.
 

heart

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I think public school was originally intended to just be a place to teach people how to hold their pee until break, work at some mindless task for a block of hours. Just teaching a person how to handle shift work. If you were *meant* for anything better, Mama and Papa sent you to prep school. There's a spine of that which remains.
 

Athenian200

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I think public school was originally intended to just be a place to teach people how to hold their pee until break, work at some mindless task for a block of hours. Just teaching a person how to handle shift work. If you were *meant* for anything better, Mama and Papa sent you to prep school. There's a spine of that which remains.

Uh... I actually learned how to hold it for the whole school day because I felt too self-conscious to ask, and was afraid of running out of time between classes. It helped that I avoided drinking anything during the day, and ate dry foods until I got home, when I'd gulp down lots of liquid. I guess it worked really, really well for me then.

I remember asking one of the other kids why they kept on acting out and doing stuff that didn't benefit them in that environment, and they said, "Because we don't want to turn into you, Machine (which was my nickname). You're what their rules are trying to turn us into."
 

heart

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My friend from junior high now teaches high school and her biggest concern is a chart she made about restroom breaks and who has used up their allotment this month and who hasn't. You get to go to the restroom only once during a semester, no matter you got your monthly or food posioning or whatever.

She says the state pays her to give fifty-five minutes of quaility education to the students and she won't have them cheating themselves out of the benefit of her teaching. (I felt like I was suddenly talking to an alien!)

Then she got a student with Crohn's disease who had a excuse to go whenever they needed to and she decided to make her line in the sand over the issue and last I heard she was being called before the school board to justify herself. She didn't appreciate me siding with the child and she quit talking to me. *sigh*
 

Quinlan

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She says the state pays her to give fifty-five minutes of quaility education to the students and she won't have them cheating themselves out of the benefit of her teaching. (I felt like I was suddenly talking to an alien!)

Woah, talk about inflated self-importance! :shock:
 
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