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  1. #61
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aderack View Post
    Well, we're talking here about an institution that is set up to help people. Specifically in a field where one often needs help to know how to begin to ask for help.

    It's not necessarily reasonable to tell a twelve-year-old, hey, you don't like what we're insisting you have to do or else be a failure to society? Well, it's on your own head then.

    Everyone needs some kind of guidance at some stage.

    EDIT:

    That is to say, the whole point of learning is to empower people to think for themselves. So it's kind of ridiculous, when an educational system has failed in that mission to then go to the systemically powerless and say, dude, pick yourself up. What's wrong with you?

    That's the whole problem to begin with.
    I'm not sure that the educational system has failed in that mission. There are lots of people with whom education has succeeded. There's no magic button the system can push to make everyone learned and rational beings. The way things work is that the student has to put in effort, not just get spoonfed. How and why would a 12 year old know better anyway? Children think of any excuse not to like school.
    Johari Nohari

    "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. "--Niccolo Machiavelli

  2. #62
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Hey, I didn't say I didn't like school. Quite the contrary. But I'm glad we had a greater amount of freedom WITHIN an organized structure. People who are strict just because they have poles up their butts are not cool, however. You need to pick your battles: Discipline is good, but stifling creativity is not.

    My school was awesome because it allowed for creativity within certain boundaries. That's how it should be.
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

  3. #63
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    I was always bringing home notes about not attending classes. If it didn't interest me I wouldn't attend (or if I felt it had no real life application). Thus I didn't waste my time in P.E. or stupid life skills ect. I did make a special effort for maths, hated it, but knew I'd need it. Spent most of my time in the art room or in the science building. Teachers gave up trying to get me to attend stuff I thought was useless after I hit fifteen though, seeing I was a good student in everything I was interested in. Should have seen the fuss they kicked up though when I decided to give sex ed a miss.
    As SJ as the system is, I found you can bend the rules within reason. Teachers aren't going to kick up a fuss if you are in the library "studying" (for me that meant researching my latest pet subject in science or history), instead going to home ec...it's probably a blessing for me, the internet wasn't freely available then though. I think I might have had issues then.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

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  4. #64
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireyPheonix View Post
    I was always bringing home notes about not attending classes. If it didn't interest me I wouldn't attend (or if I felt it had no real life application). Thus I didn't waste my time in P.E. or stupid life skills ect. I did make a special effort for maths, hated it, but knew I'd need it. Spent most of my time in the art room or in the science building. Teachers gave up trying to get me to attend stuff I thought was useless after I hit fifteen though, seeing I was a good student in everything I was interested in. Should have seen the fuss they kicked up though when I decided to give sex ed a miss.
    As SJ as the system is, I found you can bend the rules within reason. Teachers aren't going to kick up a fuss if you are in the library "studying" (for me that meant researching my latest pet subject in science or history), instead going to home ec...it's probably a blessing for me, the internet wasn't freely available then though. I think I might have had issues then.
    What do you do now? I mean what are you?
    Johari Nohari

    "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. "--Niccolo Machiavelli

  5. #65
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    I'd be happy to see the data. However, to approximate an answer, Ns have just over +1SD above normal IQ and make up 25% (to 33%) of the population. You can work out roughly the population makeup from this.

    So yes, lots of overlap. But you also have lots of truck drivers that like poetry. It just depends on what you want to use the information for.

    (Also, kids tend to be closer to 50/50 population re: N, so it's actually less equal early on)
    Interesting. I think that I've gotten more S as I've grown up.


    *sigh* Marginally so, yes. In the sense that those that grasp earlier 'understand' more. The point is that they do grasp quicker, and then do not get fed anything else. Lockstep, but not in tune with ability.
    Sure, but I think that the gifted also probably do more knowledge-seeking on their own, and it's likely more eclectic and advanced knowledge than what you get in school.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  6. #66
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Interesting. I think that I've gotten more S as I've grown up.
    We all do Well, on average, we all do

    Sure, but I think that the gifted also probably do more knowledge-seeking on their own, and it's likely more eclectic and advanced knowledge than what you get in school.
    Yes, that's very likely. Unfortunately, and you can see it in this thread, knowledge seems to breed contempt, not understanding. The maturity level is just not there yet to really have the full package of knowledge, understanding and wisdom (pick 2 out of 3, I suppose).

  7. #67
    Senior Member avolkiteshvara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    Guys, the issue isn't that "SJs are supposed to like school more", the issue is that schoolteachers and schoolmasters/principles are predominantly SJ and thus SJs will have communication advantages, especially over SPs and NTPs. I really wish i would have had at least ONE fucking ENTP teacher in elementary school. SJ assbag after SJ assbag year after year really stifled the fuck out of my imagination, and I need my imagination to be illicited to see something (I dont hate SJs btw, i just presume the really smart/good SJs got better paying jobs)
    +1

    I had a couple classes that I got A in highschool. But because I didn't like showing up for class, the teachers dropped it down to a B or C. When I asked why I should get a lower grade even though all my work was spotless, they said "because its the rules".

    SJ skewedness.

  8. #68
    Sniffles
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    What the hell kind of name is avolkiteshvara :confused:

  9. #69
    Senior Member avolkiteshvara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    What the hell kind of name is avolkiteshvara :confused:
    What type do you think it is?

  10. #70
    Sniffles
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    Probably Russian, or Eastern Slavic in general. Failing that, Indian(Ghandi).

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