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  1. #51
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    What does "gifted" even mean if not IQ number and IQ number doesn't really relate to type does it? Type is more how you use what you got, not what you got?
    It's somewhat related to type, along the N dimension. Gifted students primarily identify with being Ns. I suppose we can argue semantics, but... that's the eventual conclusion we will reach.

    The argument isn't valid, however, the way it was presented. Intelligence - especially abstraction and the like - do not relate to knowledge at that age. The issue was that 'gifted' students aren't normally engaged at their maximum performance level, leading to boredom/etc.

  2. #52
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    It's somewhat related to type, along the N dimension. Gifted students primarily identify with being Ns. I suppose we can argue semantics, but... that's the eventual conclusion we will reach.
    That's the traditional answer, but I wouldn't be surprised if newer data showed less of a correlation. Look how many SJ's there are and how many NT's there are. There are going to be tons of gifted SJ's.


    The argument isn't valid, however, the way it was presented. Intelligence - especially abstraction and the like - do not relate to knowledge at that age. The issue was that 'gifted' students aren't normally engaged at their maximum performance level, leading to boredom/etc.
    I think that knowledge has SOMETHING to with intelligence at all ages, don't you?
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  3. #53
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    That's the traditional answer, but I wouldn't be surprised if newer data showed less of a correlation. Look how many SJ's there are and how many NT's there are. There are going to be tons of gifted SJ's.
    I'd be happy to see the data. However, to approximate an answer, Ns have just over +1SD above normal IQ and make up 25% (to 33%) of the population. You can work out roughly the population makeup from this.

    So yes, lots of overlap. But you also have lots of truck drivers that like poetry. It just depends on what you want to use the information for.

    (Also, kids tend to be closer to 50/50 population re: N, so it's actually less equal early on)


    I think that knowledge has SOMETHING to with intelligence at all ages, don't you?
    *sigh* Marginally so, yes. In the sense that those that grasp earlier 'understand' more. The point is that they do grasp quicker, and then do not get fed anything else. Lockstep, but not in tune with ability.

  4. #54
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post
    I don't think the SJs are out to get you. Most probably don't even know what SJ is. You get out of education what you put into it.
    That's right.

    If you don't get what you need, you need to search for additional stimuli elsewhere. You also need to take the initiative. I have never believed in sitting on your laurels expecting someone to simply hand you everything you need on a silver platter.
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

  5. #55
    videodrones; questions Verfremdungseffekt's Avatar
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    Well, we're talking here about an institution that is set up to help people. Specifically in a field where one often needs help to know how to begin to ask for help.

    It's not necessarily reasonable to tell a twelve-year-old, hey, you don't like what we're insisting you have to do or else be a failure to society? Well, it's on your own head then.

    Everyone needs some kind of guidance at some stage.

    EDIT:

    That is to say, the whole point of learning is to empower people to think for themselves. So it's kind of ridiculous, when an educational system has failed in that mission to then go to the systemically powerless and say, dude, pick yourself up. What's wrong with you?

    That's the whole problem to begin with.

  6. #56
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    In grade school through highschool, yes it does seem that you could classify it as being SJ, given the structure and the more strict atmosphere. However, in college I think it's all dependent on what kind of classes you're taking and who your professors are.

  7. #57
    Is Willard in Footloose!! CJ99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    There you go. I fixed it for you!
    tut tut! why do SJs always insist on try to fix things when there is no problem!:steam::steam::steam:
    "I'd never die for my beliefs, I might be wrong"

    "Is it not enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe there are fairys at the bottom of it too"

    "Intelligence is being able to hold too opposing views in the mind at the one time without going crazy" - Now all I need to figure out is if I'm intelligent or crazy!

  8. #58
    Is Willard in Footloose!! CJ99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walking Tourist View Post
    In your dreams!
    All gifted students are SPs!!!
    Yeah i meant gifted intellectually not physically!
    "I'd never die for my beliefs, I might be wrong"

    "Is it not enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe there are fairys at the bottom of it too"

    "Intelligence is being able to hold too opposing views in the mind at the one time without going crazy" - Now all I need to figure out is if I'm intelligent or crazy!

  9. #59
    Is Willard in Footloose!! CJ99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    That's the traditional answer, but I wouldn't be surprised if newer data showed less of a correlation. Look how many SJ's there are and how many NT's there are. There are going to be tons of gifted SJ's.




    I think that knowledge has SOMETHING to with intelligence at all ages, don't you?
    Maybe but if you do it percentage wise then clearly NTs are more likely to be gifted. And i'm not even joking now.
    "I'd never die for my beliefs, I might be wrong"

    "Is it not enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe there are fairys at the bottom of it too"

    "Intelligence is being able to hold too opposing views in the mind at the one time without going crazy" - Now all I need to figure out is if I'm intelligent or crazy!

  10. #60
    Is Willard in Footloose!! CJ99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aderack View Post
    Well, we're talking here about an institution that is set up to help people. Specifically in a field where one often needs help to know how to begin to ask for help.

    It's not necessarily reasonable to tell a twelve-year-old, hey, you don't like what we're insisting you have to do or else be a failure to society? Well, it's on your own head then.

    Everyone needs some kind of guidance at some stage.

    EDIT:

    That is to say, the whole point of learning is to empower people to think for themselves. So it's kind of ridiculous, when an educational system has failed in that mission to then go to the systemically powerless and say, dude, pick yourself up. What's wrong with you?

    That's the whole problem to begin with.

    ^+1
    "I'd never die for my beliefs, I might be wrong"

    "Is it not enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe there are fairys at the bottom of it too"

    "Intelligence is being able to hold too opposing views in the mind at the one time without going crazy" - Now all I need to figure out is if I'm intelligent or crazy!

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