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  1. #21
    heart on fire
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    "In our dream...people yield themselves with perfect docility to our molding hands. The present educational conventions [intellectual and character education] fade from our minds, and unhampered by tradition we work our own good will upon a grateful and responsive folk. We shall not try to make these people or any of their children into philosophers or men of learning or men of science.

    We have not to raise up from among them authors, educators, poets or men of letters. We shall not search for embryo great artists, painters, musicians, nor lawyers, doctors, preachers, politicians, statesmen, of whom we have ample supply. The task we set before ourselves is very simple...we will organize children...and teach them to do in a perfect way the things their fathers and mothers are doing in an imperfect way." - John D. Rockefeller’s General Education Board, Occasional Letter Number One (1906)




    In his 1905 dissertation for Columbia Teachers College, Elwood Cubberly—the future Dean of Education at Stanford—wrote that schools should be factories “in which raw products, children, are to be shaped and formed into finished products…manufactured like nails, and the specifications for manufacturing will come from government and industry.”

  2. #22
    Is Willard in Footloose!! CJ99's Avatar
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    ^and that is why education systems don't work.

    Its ironic that the education system of most countries is geared towards SJs and making people do the things they are told to do the way they are told to do them when infact SJs don't need to be taught how to do that and the current system fails epically on making other temperments do that.


    As to why NTs all think education is SJ dominated its probably because were the ones who stick out the most in school and then get the most shit for it. Because we like to point out to teachers that we are intelligent and we understood you in the first 5 min and that we did all that without following your rules. And that sort of attitude annoys most SJs, especially the huge number of STJs in schools.

    SPs and NFs stick out as well but SPs can be kept in place with sports and arts and crafts type subjects and NFs generally aren't as agressive even if they stick out as much.
    "I'd never die for my beliefs, I might be wrong"

    "Is it not enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe there are fairys at the bottom of it too"

    "Intelligence is being able to hold too opposing views in the mind at the one time without going crazy" - Now all I need to figure out is if I'm intelligent or crazy!

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJ99 View Post
    SPs and NFs stick out as well but SPs can be kept in place with sports and arts and crafts type subjects and NFs generally aren't as agressive even if they stick out as much.
    You have no idea how much a daydreaming NF can set a ESJ off... It doesn't take aggression, believe me.

  4. #24
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    Public school is geared toward SJs. In fact, I read in a book recently that as many as 50% of public school teachers are SJs (no wonder I hated high school so much). But I digress, college - academia, rather - is probably far more populated by NTs and NFs, though. It's not the same thing at all.

  5. #25
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJ99 View Post
    As to why NTs all think education is SJ dominated its probably because were the ones who stick out the most in school and then get the most shit for it. Because we like to point out to teachers that we are intelligent and we understood you in the first 5 min and that we did all that without following your rules.
    All gifted students do that, though. There's no type causation there.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  6. #26
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    True, but people don't have to be "gifted" to be a round peg in a square hole nor to be misunderstood, etc. I've certainly never considered myself "gifted"

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    True, but people don't have to be "gifted" to be a round peg in a square hole nor to be misunderstood, etc. I've certainly never considered myself "gifted"

    No, I know, but I meant that specific example of finishing before everyone else, hating the regimentation, etc. In grade school, I wasn't just more intelligent than my teachers; I often knew more about the SUBJECT they taught us than they did. I wasn't very bashful about letting them know it, either.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    No, I know, but I meant that specific example of finishing before everyone else, hating the regimentation, etc. In grade school, I wasn't just more intelligent than my teachers; I often knew more about the SUBJECT they taught us than they did. I wasn't very bashful about letting them know it, either.
    LOL, in grade school I often didn't even finish at all, I'd just decide I'd done enough, get a seventy and just float off into dreamland. Teachers would even get enraged at times but I just couldn't care. I did not care about much outside my own head.

    They sent me for testing, saying I was subnormal intelligence. I came out normal in concrete thought, slighty behind in math, ahead in vocabulary and something like five years ahead of my age in abstract thought. (Which the tester seemed to think was something to pity me over) I don't think my parents knew what to make of that nor did anyone else, but then there were no more accusations that I was subnormal.

  9. #29
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    No, I know, but I meant that specific example of finishing before everyone else, hating the regimentation, etc. In grade school, I wasn't just more intelligent than my teachers; I often knew more about the SUBJECT they taught us than they did. I wasn't very bashful about letting them know it, either.
    Really? I guess I can relate to some of that, but I'd usually just hide the fact that I had perceived their error and nod my head. If it were a particularly bad error, I'd go up to them after class and point it out discreetly, so they could claim they'd gotten their notes mixed up or something. They always appreciated that.

    It's looking like I'm alarmingly compliant in some ways...

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Really? I guess I can relate to that, but I'd usually just hide the fact that I had perceived their error and nod my head. If it were a particularly bad error, I'd go up to them after class and point it out discreetly, so they could claim they'd gotten their notes mixed up or something. They always appreciated that.

    It's looking like I'm alarmingly compliant in some ways...

    I'd just raise my hand and say, "You're pointing at East Africa, but you're talking about West Africa," or "The Great Wall of China is NOT one of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World."
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

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